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Topic:
Control Systems are dead.
This thread has 98 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
Post 16 made on Sunday February 9, 2020 at 11:29
Joec
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My 16 year old daughter is constanly using our control4 system and she loves it. Playing spotify or pandora in the room she is in or instantly playing it throughout the house.

She will alway pick up the portable touch screen to browse movies on the kaleidescape. Its just a matter of showing them the system and what it can do

She tinkers with the lighting as well
Post 17 made on Sunday February 9, 2020 at 11:43
Ernie Gilman
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On February 8, 2020 at 22:44, Brad Humphrey said...
This is no different than the coffee table with 5 remotes laying on it. People just have to be educated.

That's not completely true. They have to be educated, sure, but they also have to become convinced that a) it's simpler for them to use that control system, and b) they give a damn about using it instead of an individual remote. For me, I'd also add that the "remote" has to have buttons labeled with the actual functions they control. This NEVER happens with a hard-button remote.

For me, at home we have a DirecTV remote that controls the DVR, TV Power, and the volume on a Yamaha receiver. That's what we use for 99% of our viewing.

Is there ANY remote that controls a DirecTV receiver as easily as a DirecTV remote? It's well-organized, and hey -- all the buttons are correctly labeled.

There's a dumb reality to our "system" -- DirecTV was not able to come up with a set of control codes for Yamaha products that includes a discrete ON command (though it has an OFF*), so we just freakin' leave the AVR on all the time! We'll put up with having the AVR powered up all the time rather than being forced to use a remote for the DVR that doesn't have the perfect set of buttons.

And some people just will never get it. Back when the youngest daughter was 15 (this was 10 years ago), she used to listen to music by way of YouTube videos. I showed her & explained Pandora, Spotify, etc. and using the home NAS.
But she continued to just want to use the crappy YouTube for music (with sound from her laptop speakers - she had an audio system in her room). Mind you at that time (about 2010), YouTube audio was pretty crappy by itself.

So I agree. A 15 year old girls opinion means squat. lol

This ignores what you just said about your own daughter. Fifteen year old girls become 25 year old women. You tell us what your daughter did ten years ago, but if she does the same thing now, then the opinion of a 15 year old girl is indeed worth paying attention to.



*I might have this backwards: I haven't turned off the AVR for several years.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
OP | Post 18 made on Sunday February 9, 2020 at 12:55
Fins
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On February 9, 2020 at 11:29, Joec said...
My 16 year old daughter is constanly using our control4 system and she loves it. Playing spotify or pandora in the room she is in or instantly playing it throughout the house.

She will alway pick up the portable touch screen to browse movies on the kaleidescape. Its just a matter of showing them the system and what it can do

She tinkers with the lighting as well

Does she use a remote or touch screen to watch TV?

My daughter leant use other rooms in the house. And to be fair, she’s got a nice setup in her room. Desk, small couch, MacBook, her own dog, and everything in there is controlled. And she keeps it meticulous, unlike what her siblings do to the rest of the house. I tell her she should save her money and buy a dorm fridge and she wouldn’t ever have to leave it.

But our own kids aside, most teens aren’t exposed to the control systems that we all have. They are learning to use Separate apps for everything. And my daughter’s choice has made me think that kids that learn that method first and are comfortable with it, are going to be more inclined to stick with that method.

At the very least, hard button remotes will become no more. And I think equipment manufacturers will push this to save money, just like TV providers are trying to push customers to use rokus and Apple TV’s to Get their service so they don’t have to provide expensive hardware.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 19 made on Sunday February 9, 2020 at 13:01
Trunk-Slammer -Supreme
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On February 9, 2020 at 11:43, Ernie Gilman said...
For me, I'd also add that the "remote" has to have buttons labeled with the actual functions they control. This NEVER happens with a hard-button remote.

Really?

I've never programmed a URC remote that didn't have labeling on the hard buttons that did anything other than they should.

For me, at home we have a DirecTV remote that controls the DVR, TV Power, and the volume on a Yamaha receiver. That's what we use for 99% of our viewing.

For the basic users, this IS the norm, and it IS in a way, a control system of sorts.

Is there ANY remote that controls a DirecTV receiver as easily as a DirecTV remote? It's well-organized, and hey -- all the buttons are correctly labeled.

Every URC remote I've ever programmed works as good, if not better, than the DirecTV, or TimeWarner/Spectrum remote. It's really not all that hard.



I do agree with Fins on the death of the high end control system. It's a pretty narrow market that will tend to get narrower as time wears on. Honestly, most people are just fine with flipping a light switch, and don't really care or need a Crestron or C4 monster in their home. Those systems are for the uber rich, rather than the masses.
Post 20 made on Sunday February 9, 2020 at 14:03
FunHouse Texas
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On February 9, 2020 at 10:47, FreddyFreeloader said...
Can you adjust volume on in-wall/in/ceiling speakers from the Apple TV app? If not that wouldn’t fly even in my house, to have to jump to a specific app to adjust volume then back.

Yes - with ARC back to say a Sonos amp you can use the apple TV remote
I AM responsible for typographical errors!
I have all the money I will ever need - unless i buy something..
OP | Post 21 made on Sunday February 9, 2020 at 15:15
Fins
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On February 9, 2020 at 13:01, Trunk-Slammer -Supreme said...
Really?

I've never programmed a URC remote that didn't have labeling on the hard buttons that did anything other than they should.

For the basic users, this IS the norm, and it IS in a way, a control system of sorts.


Every URC remote I've ever programmed works as good, if not better, than the DirecTV, or TimeWarner/Spectrum remote. It's really not all that hard.

I do agree with Fins on the death of the high end control system. It's a pretty narrow market that will tend to get narrower as time wears on. Honestly, most people are just fine with flipping a light switch, and don't really care or need a Crestron or C4 monster in their home. Those systems are for the uber rich, rather than the masses.

Well, I think at the same time the masses are going to demand more and more technology. They aren’t going to be content with flipping a light switch. This is going to cause more IOT solutions.

It’s not going to be in the immediate future, but I think within a generation.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 22 made on Sunday February 9, 2020 at 16:45
Mac Burks (39)
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What app does she use to adjust volume?
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Post 23 made on Sunday February 9, 2020 at 17:37
mrtristan
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I've been thinking about this a lot ever since I noticed that I'm doing less and less distributed audio systems and control systems. Why turn on a keypad for one source (Sonos) when a Sonos system can control rooms from their app. Thermostats have their native app. Why spend time building one for a control system? When I do a full surround system with a surround amp, sure I'll do something with RTI or ProControl. I just wish I would have full control of Spotify or Apple music with the same interface but the custom industry has not been able to do that for years. Shame on them. The only thing I see being convenient to integrate with media control is lighting.

Sonos is impossible to avoid. When I ask a new client what they are currently using for sound, 99% chance it's Sonos and they like it.

The other day I decided to spec a Harmony Elite remote for the first time because the customer wanted to control existing Radio Ra2 in a home he bought and didn't want to spend nearly $1000 on a pro level controller. Damn I was pretty impressed how easy and quick it was to program the Harmony, with some ability to customize buttons and readily integrate with IoT devices. I really am tempted to continue on with the product for small systems. Only thing that makes me hesitate is the lack of margin.

Does anyone feel the need to spec video matrix systems anymore? Less and less people are using cable boxes and the only thing worth sharing in a video system is a Bluray player. Do I really need to suggest spending over $5000 on video distribution when everything is built into the TV? Makes more sense to keep video sources local and use a Sonos Amp to power in-ceiling speakers or use one of their Soundbars. No control system really required there - at most, an inexpensive handheld remote to automate video switching on the TV. Sometimes the customer are smart enough to use the stock TV remote to switch inputs between Netflix and cable box.

I notice there is also less and less traffic on this forum. I wonder if this means there are many people left that are passionate about this industry.

I've been posting stuff like this for the last few years and still haven't found another industry I can work in that's fun and makes money.
Post 24 made on Sunday February 9, 2020 at 19:51
Rob Grabon
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Privacy. Only way to get it is with a control system.

One day soon, it's not going to be just password leaks, one of these IOT is going to make a big mess. Than people will understand what they've been sending out of their house.
Technology is cheap, Time is expensive.
OP | Post 25 made on Sunday February 9, 2020 at 20:11
Fins
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On February 9, 2020 at 16:45, Mac Burks (39) said...
What app does she use to adjust volume?

For that, she uses the Elan remote because the audio goes through the Elan amp. But given she would rather use the Apple TV app for all other control, makes me realize her age are going to prefer apps over remotes.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 26 made on Monday February 10, 2020 at 10:40
FunHouse Texas
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In 10 years voice will control 90% of what we need done. Touch controls will be a memory.
I AM responsible for typographical errors!
I have all the money I will ever need - unless i buy something..
Post 27 made on Monday February 10, 2020 at 10:42
Mario
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I bet if she was a 15yo boy surfing pornhub, he would have jumped for that remote because it would be quicker.
Post 28 made on Monday February 10, 2020 at 10:45
Mac Burks (39)
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On February 9, 2020 at 20:11, Fins said...
For that, she uses the Elan remote because the audio goes through the Elan amp. But given she would rather use the Apple TV app for all other control, makes me realize her age are going to prefer apps over remotes.

The reason i asked that question...

Maybe the issue isn't that she prefers the single apps vs control systems. Maybe she just prefers the smartphone/tablet control. If thats the case i bet she would prefer a single UI page where she could control the AppleTV and adjust the volume at the same time.

My nieces and nephews have so many gadgets to watch tv and listen to music "smartly". Then they come over to my house and see my boring URC remote where they can press one button to turn everything on and they are amazed. Their table full of OEM remotes is a device full of apps. Nothing has changed. Our industry is still cleaning up wall and coffee table acne.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 29 made on Monday February 10, 2020 at 11:41
ILO
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On February 10, 2020 at 10:40, FunHouse Texas said...
In 10 years voice will control 90% of what we need done. Touch controls will be a memory.

After living with an Alexa voice controlled Crestron AV system for over a year now I have learned that using your voice to do lots of things is irritating to any one else in the room (especially my dog)...I guess if you live alone without any pets it's not problem and you get the added bonus of having something to talk to.... :-)
Post 30 made on Monday February 10, 2020 at 12:24
Rob Grabon
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Kids today have grown up with a display in their hand. Tablet to Phone. Their phone is a right of passage, this is mine, it's private. I can use it to tune out the world, and not be questioned what I'm listening to or watching. When I want to share, I can cast from MY phone. That remote, that's yours.

Parents grew up with a remote put in their hand. The remote is how they control their world. Buttons to press to get what they want.

Seniors cling to physical media. I want to take this that I bought, and enjoy it. They're being exposed to streaming because they've lost the ability to go shop for a new album, other than through Amazon, which is just as foreign to them.

Toddlers are being exposed to voice control. After all it's the first way they learn to control their environment. Cry, then mimic. They will question the need for light switches.

The network is NOW the home control system. Lighting control will be next, if the Unions ever allow POE lighting to standardize.
Technology is cheap, Time is expensive.
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