If you base everything we do and plan off the habits of teens we are screwed.

We just did a Sony 77OLED, Ariston, DOlby Atmos, Sonance, JL Audio, Roku, AppleTV, Cable, Plex Server, Sonos, etc. The room rock and cost over 80k. Every single time I have been over there, the two kids have been sitting on the couch watching TV, Netflix, Youtube, or whatever on their phones or tablets. If this is the leading indicator, we are all screwed including any TV manufacturer...

Kids do not watch TV the way we do.
Cable companies and even broadcasters are aware of this and trying to figure out where the industry is going and how to stay relevant.
E Sports has become a massive industry. For most of us, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would 10,000 people show up to a stadium to "watch" people play a video game like League of legends or the other popular games. And millions around the world spend countless hours playing these games at home, and they also spend crazy amounts of time watching these games from home too.

...and then Spotify drop the ability for 3rd party companies to control their software and force EVERYONE into their Connect approach. And your Sonos customers will complain as they're 'not used to it'.
Then Sonos sues Apple and they drop Apple Music support for Sonos and again, your customers complain.

Whether this happens or not is theoretical, but it's certainly not smart to put all your eggs in one basket.

Teens don’t set market trends in our industry, but they do grow up to be customers. And their adult habits will be largely influenced by habits they had as kids and things they grew accustomed to during those formative years

As a tech junkie I like to keep an eye on what’s next. Energy companies like Sonnen, coupled with solar or PoE lighting for example. As it’s been mentioned a few times in this thread (and all the doom threads preceding this one), our ability to adapt to the market is key, as is abandoning product or practices that require constant massaging to work properly.

They ALL need a network.

At no point have I said I think our industry is going to go away. Just that IMO, technology and the customer is going to change the role we serve.

Eero is handling that pretty well.  I see guys who are moving from the mainstays  Luxul, Pakedege, and now they're using Eero. 

^^^ This. We're just getting onboard with C4 and I'm stunned at how hard they're steering everything in an IP-controlled direction. Hell, I'm stunned at how hard *everything* outside of the actual basic system configuration is.

EDIT - My sales guy just called C4 and they have a pre-recorded message telling you to use the IR driver for AppleTV now because there was an update that broke the IP driver.

of course they did....

And it's destroying the market and spectrums at the same time. If anyone has a clue about networking, they are not using any of the above products.

Gimmick at best and just re-packaged wifi repeaters from days old.

These devices are sold to lazy installers or unknowing customers.

The only issue worth discussing is whether they will continue in their present habits. Or will they change, evolve if you like that term, into people who fit our previous business model?


Yup.

At least tell us how you really feel.

Guess what, in homes without a full blown control system these work remarkably well, make clients happy that were unhappy before hand, and do not give us service calls.

So now I will make a bold statement much like yours. Good integrators don’t sell one product to everybody, they sell the product that is appropriate for the situation.

P. S. I do not take issue with you if you have a product you like better. But if you honestly are calling them old technology and repackaged repeaters, then you don’t understand or have not looked into the technology yourself.

I can't help but wonder if some of y'all even listen to your clients. The majority of people I deal with, from higher end down to that mid market that most integrators completely ignore or can't sell to because they don't understand their needs, don't see the multiple app scenario as inconvenient. Especially when, as mentioned numerous times in this thread, most of those devices' apps are better for the specific device than what you get when integrated into a control system's interface. The control system may still have a place, but it's a shrinking space, and it really doesn't make sense for most clients outside of the very high end market, and even then it's not always necessary and often not at all what the client actually wants. But we, as an industry, have brainwashed ourselves into believing that if it's not all tied to a control system, it's not done right. Maybe ten years ago, but those days are gone. Especially since most control system manufacturers are just rolling out buggy, untested junk as fast as they can.

2 years ago, I would have argued against everything I'm saying now. But the reality is, when we sell a control system, we're selling snake oil and a commitment to swindle the client again and again every time the control system gets outpaced by current technology. We may not believe we're swindling people, but we are. We sell people high dollar systems that are pretty well guaranteed to cost them again and again. Think about every time Control4 has rolled out an update that basically renders older systems obsolete. Every control system manufacturer is guilty of it, too, not just C4, but some of their fiascos from years past help them stand out.

We might think we're some bunch of cool tech guys that deliver this great experience, but we're not. At least, not if we're selling everything around a control system on jobs where it's nowhere even close to necessary. We're no better than greasy car salesmen. I for one am done with it. At least if a client's Nest thermostat needs replaced by some new, great, and wondrous piece, it's not going to cost them f*cktons of money because the whole ecosystem has to be replaced to accommodate one or two new components. Factor in that most control systems seem to have a maximum life of ten years, and we're really looking like the villains. At least with the multi app approach, things can be dealt with as they happen in the case of outdated product, or even product failure, rather than knowing that the whole thing will have to go in ten years.

And that, my friends, is the hard truth that we as an industry had better come to grips with if we want to survive.

^^^^^ these are true words....
Obviously shading and lighting are huge areas of growth....but another is one that got us here in the first place...better audio....

So many of us (and I was one of the worst offenders) have installed the highest profit cheap crap speakers we could....we drove them with whatever cheap amp was in our program....it was good enough....until it started not to be....the smart speakers and table top radios started sounding almost as good....

Go back to your roots....find an area or two or three in the house that need a great audio experience...And for gods sake find real speakers from a real speaker company ....educate your customer on High-Rez...since moving over to the rep side I have fallen in love with music again....your customers can too

And how many times have you updated firmware in a speaker?