By "PICO inspired" I'm only suggesting a small, light weight, universal wireless pad, not a literal licensing of Lutron intellectual property.

The fixtures could use EoP.

Adopting a buss type infrastructure would make seemingly simple decorator requests, such as "could we move the switches over here?" simple.

In some respects we would be establishing a "layers" concept to power and control that we use for data networks.

Would be nice if something like LumenCache was the standard 20 years ago: cat5 wiring to the actually light fixtures with a robust controller. Maybe 20 years from now.

Is LumenCache something you've used a lot?

It's funny, wiring lights with low volt wires make so much sense now. I can't believe I didn't think of it before!

Lutron has Eco System which is based on Dali and was originally part of their commercial products, but is now available in HomeWorks QS.

Each fixture is wired with constant high voltage power and a daisy chained low voltage control wire.

Each fixture is individually addressed.

Eliminates the need to home run all your switch legs back to the panel and gives lots of flexibility on how lights are programmed.

There is a standard - DIN.

Crestron makes it, Lutron makes it for Europe only.

Since the modules have to fit on a DIN rail in a DIN enclosure it requires things to be as small as possible in width and a pre-defined height. This means swapping modules shouldn't be an issue going from one system to another.

Now try and get manufactures to agree, by the time they do we will be using bio-luminescence and have no need for dimming systems.

That's exactly what I mean. Fins' example of using Radio Ra to "replace" LiteTouch is the same thing. When a couple of LiteTouch parts go down, you pretty much need to buy a complete new lighting control system -- soup to nuts + labor, except in some cases you can use the existing wiring and possibly the existing cabinets.

I'd sure want conventional electrical wiring in there so at the very least you can use dumb switches (or even smart switches) to control the lights.

Yes indeed, Mac, but his point was: What if you COULDN'T replace those tires? Today, certain proprietary systems won't let you swap out a few parts here and there from a third-party provider. You have to buy a whole new "car"

Very interesting and helpful, thank you. Any pics?

This can be done, without a lot of major surgery to the house.  The DIN module's from Crestron will work in the lighting cans from Colorado V.net.  I went to school in Loveland, CO for this system and installed quite a bit of these back in the day.  The communication protocol for all of the v.net equipment is over Cat5e and used the CAN Bus protocol.  The backbone of the system was linux as well.  Everyone here is right about the inability to get parts from obsolete/manufacturer when the items fail in the system.  If this is in Colorado, I am here as well.  Give me a PM.  I would like to go on a site walk and let the client know his options moving forward.

So given your access to manufacturers, you've not bothered to contact any of them and ask what solutions they have to replace vnet?

Where did I say anything about replacing LiteTouch with Ra? I could have been drinking, but I think you may be mixed up.

If a customer who's able to afford centralized lighting once, in the event that company went out of business, they can afford a conversion. Of course, it also helps to pick a solid world wide company like Lutron or Legrand (Vantage)

Considering you guys have so far given her 4 pages on information in this thread for free why should she have to pay one of the manufacturers for it?

By gosh, I think you've outdone yourself, even without considering that LiteTouch was a worldwide, highly revered company from 1986 on.

Customer: I spent $75k on this LiteTouch (or XYZ) system 5 years ago. A couple of keypads no longer work so I can't control those lights. What should I do?

Fins: Spend $50k to replace the whole system.

Customer: Hell no ... I'm not going through that again. I just want to replace it all with regular light switches and maybe some smart bulbs.

Fins: You can't really do that. There's no power at the switch locations. We'd have to rewire the whole home.

Customer: Well that sucks.

Fins: Well you should'nt have bought LiteTouch in the first place if you couldn't afford to replace the whole system 5 years later.

That is an interesting take.

LiteTouch was never on the same level as a world company as Lutron or Legrand. I walk in any electric supply and find lutron and legrand products. Not just lighting systems. Still, you are thinking with your wallet, not the wallet of someone with 4 multi-million dollar homes and a dozen golf club memberships that run $20,000 a year each.