I was thinking the same thing, or prey for an earthquake.

I am getting a lot of high end clients who want simple, basic stuff in their new or remodeled home due to past experiences with high dollar automation systems becoming obsolete, unserviceable or orphaned at their previous home. HDMI boned us in a big way on that one. I deal mostly with Crestron based systems and I still run across PVID based systems that clients are looking for upgrades on. They are pretty shocked when I explain the cost of doing DM. Audio has remained pretty static, still have quite a few PAD8 based audio distro systems out there but the video side is making for lots of bitter tastes.

A $150k to $300k investment that is worthless in less then a decade doesn't bring the ROI that a lot of these people expect.
Lack of standardization does not help, many are not pleased when a manufacturers new touch-panel doesn't fit the opening in their marble/faux finished/leather/whale penis skin walls.

They understand that it is the way of things with technology but many are not willing to reinvest a second or third go around. Their logic is, is it worth $1,000+/mo to have, if not then they don't want to do it again.

Another one I am running into is people who have abandoned or worked around parts of failing or failed automation systems being expected to get them functional again as a condition of the sale of a home. Those are tough.

You've been in NY South too long. LOL

Ever hear the one of two guys sitting on the beach in Miami talking about how they retired? Then the first guy asked, "how da ya start a flood?"

Currently downgrading my personal home for the future sale.

Adding back some "normal" coax, changing the lighting back to basic switches and dimmers, etc, etc.

Only the basic multiroom audio, and the family room HT system will remain (with TV, AVR, DVD & 1 URC remote left behind.).

Been there with an over the top Crestron system (I'm not a Crestron dealer) in a lavish penthouse. The system was obsolete (all composite video, dismal hand held controllers), broken DVD player, dead in-wall controller, really cranky WiFi, really hard to operate (uninspired programming), crashing central controller, and the customer wanted done with it. Then came a messy divorce and the condo was on the block. I patched around things, just so they could operate the TV's. While the lights and shades worked, it was impossible to keep track of which button did what. Integration was poor and broken.

They didn't want to spend any money on the system.

I was up front with them along the way, pointing out that, while I had the TV's operating, it was not a fully functioning system in the Crestron tradition and they may get push back from potential buyers. I don't know how the final negotiations turned out.

I only saw one side of this divorce. But I do know that, in the new house, with the new spouse, there will not be any automation.

10 years ago my former boss had a demo system in a builder's showroom. I specifically remember questioning the long-term plan if V-net went belly-up and the switch locations were only wired with cat-5.

Julie, but my recollection is, there are no romex feeds to any of the switch (vnet keypad) locations.

Without knowing the specifics its only a guessing game, but...
Panelized Control4 with wired keypads might be a nice fit if there loads are centralized.
Or Lutron RadioRa2 with Pico remotes as keypads if wiring doesn't support any wired keypad solutions.

Exactly right.

Its also why I try to design infrastructure like lighting, and AV distribution as control system agnostic. Its ridiculous to tell a client that if they want to swap out Control 4 they also need to replace 60k+ in lighting.

For homes on this scale a potential purchaser should bring in a "technology inspector" in addition to the traditional home inspector.

Where is the home located? How large is it? How many switchlegs and how many keypads?
If they did Sonos for the Audio, URC for TV's and Vantage for lighting (you can probably keep and use the CAT 5 wiring, unless it is a very large home, $ 65k seems a lot????

Us too.

We got a call a few weeks ago from a GC in Florida who was remodeling a condo for one our clients here in CA. Client instructed GC to install identical system to what we had done here. Client said he could use our system, it was reasonably priced and that's what he wanted in FL.

Thanks for the input, all.

Knowing what I know now -- Lite Touch was kind of the final straw -- I would be hard-pressed to recommend a system that was proprietary and used unconventional wiring architecture. When all else fails, I want power at the switch locations.

I wanted to let this go because im busy and i have argued against it so many times already but then a few people quoted you with "us too".



None of your high end clients own 10 year old car that they are patching up to keep on the road. They switch cars every 2-5 years so they dont have to. They want the latest coolest thing on the road.

So why do they expect their high-tech AV+Automation system to last forever and cost pennies to repair?

PVID Video Distribution wasn't cheap. Why would they think HDMI distribution is cheap?


What kind of return do they get on their old cars, computers and phones?


I dealt with a wood finisher on a boat a few months ago who wined about some damaged wood "it cant be fixed". What he really meant is that he couldn't fix it. This is a non issue.


My guess is that the real problem is that the original system wasn't done correctly. That could mean someone completely botched the install or it could mean that someone did a decent job installing but they didn't listen to the client and they just made a sale and handed them a remote and disappeared.

Are any of your customers driving Chevy's because their last Range Rover had a bunch of mechanical issues? We have dealt with many "never again" clients who end up doing it again once we show them what todays systems are capable of what its supposed to look like/do when done correctly. When they say "never again" what they really mean is we dont want to deal with the poorly planned or installed system that the last guy stuck us with.

I just received an email tonight from a client who bought their home from our original customer. I have been visiting the home once a year for 10 years replacing URC remotes and a speaker or TV. Two years ago they asked me about upgrades and said "we dont want any of this Crestron stuff just ipads". The email tonight is asking us to meet with them this week to talk about a full system upgrade. Now instead of "nah we dont want it" they want to add lighting and shades and surround sound in rooms with TV's. Point is that aside from just not having the money to spend...high end clients want the best of everything. Sell it to them.

+1 MAC


IMHO To put in 120v switches is like getting rid of your 5 year old car and getting a horse.

i also agree with Mac. After being in my house 10 years, we had to replace a dishwasher and the washing machine. The washing machine was a top of the line LG front loader. I was pissed about both appliances breaking down. The service tech explained that in the case of all front load washers, the average life span is 7 years. Anything over that should be considered free money. I did a little brief research and found that 8 to 10 years is the average life on most home appliances and electronics now. Btw, the average car on the road now is something like 15 years old, even though none of our clients drive anything over probably 4 years old unless they are into classic cars. And they aren't buying Malibu's or Taruses.