The only thing I might add....and considering my luck with decorators and client's equipment I am not one to cast stones......

1. Because a learning remote says that it has learned a code does not mean it really has. If your McIntosh DVD only reponds to its own remote then your pronto has not learned its codes.

2. Older Dimmers indeed did broadcast RF energy as a by product of dimming and can occasionally cause IR problems but no way a Lutron dimmer is the cause of this problem.

3. Pay attention to lamps ( light bulbs to the initiated ).

4. I would only use plasma proof IR sensors. I would also be careful with Audioplex. I have not kept up with their product since I was burned by them a few years back but they used to work by severely restricting the bandwidth of their IR receivers. They specificly failed to carry 38 MHz---which just happens to be the frequency of all cable remotes. How many IR based systems have you installed that did not include a cable box?

5. Mr2Channel is on the money both in terms of trouble shooting techiques and the Universal remotes. Prontos offer cool graphics but URC has a much better IR library whose codes they learned with a binary code analyzer. Their codes work. Period. And a remote is better egonomically than a touch panel. Ok, I love to channel serf and prefer one handed solutions. I need the second hand free.

Alan

It's the Pronto.

Actually its not always the Pronto. Sometimes both remotes have failed simultaneously. I agree with QQQ that sometimes I'd like to kick the f----g thing into the woods.

The most recent problem was fixed with a 791-44 instead of the 789-44. This block has 10 ports instead of 4. I usually only use it when I've got a major stack of components but the jumpers that come with it and INCREASE the power of the unit fixed my Motorola Cable box and the Marantz receiver. I also switched the 480-80 CFL unit to a 480-00 upon vwpower's idea.

I know that you really need to just take the time and go through the process to make it work but I posted because of the intermittent nature of some of the problems. I'm still looking for the control system priced below Crestron-AMX thats nearly as bulletproof (I know they are still the best and if someone REALLY wants reliability thats where we should go. I guess the economy still effects too many of my clients because I have a hard enough just time selling a color Pronto.

Who uses the MX3000 RF package... still haven't given it a fair shake yet but we do have the remote here to play with... it has to be more reliable than the terrible joke that a Philips RFX6000 is.

Niles Intellicontrol...

Some people here poo-poo it because it's old and hasn't had an update in a while, but we've sold hundreds of them (literally) and they are great (to quote tony the tiger)

Reliable and bulletproof, IMHO

Norm

That is a good suggestion and a very good product. It's only limitatation is that it is while the programming for its buttons can be changed the nomenclature cannot. But at the price point, a learning remote with composite sync sensing, voltage sensing, 12v output relays and RF ( although occasionally flakey ) is a very good low priced remote. The only reason I stopped selling them is that I can install a Crestron system faster although I do have to lower my profit margins to do so. On the other hand the Crestron system almost always offers upsell potential that the Niles does not.

Still, a very good suggestion for a low priced solution to more expensive automation controllers.

Alan

Your problem with the Motorolla cable box and Marantz are likely related. Both use "unusual" carrier frequencies. The CFL and plasma friendly receivers work by limiting the frequencies they respond to, on the CFL friendly receivers, the rejection band is adjustable, on the plasma friendly ones its not. The other popular brand that has a PITA carrier freq is RCA. Using the amplified connecting block helps because it raises the level of the IR that the receiver tries to reject, this solution doesn't work that reliably. The MAC1 is likely to be a very good solution, you will only be sending a single IR carrier to the infrared receivers, if it works well...it should be very repeatable. It can be difficult to use a CFL friendly unit w/ Marantz equipment. The carrier freq for most Marantz gear is 35 or 36kHz (helpful when setting up a CFL friendly receiver), for comparison Sony & Pioneer are 40kHz (typically) and RCA is 28kHz.

jcmitch

I have even received personal e-mail on this issue... thanks very much... this is one of the reasons I love this forum. My edited reply to the e-mail which I will not post due to serious price issues follows...

"Thanks for the personal reply. I almost went over it as it was sandwiched between 50 ads for Viagra, Penis Enlargement, Lower mortgage rates and virus attachments. We usually sell a TSU7000. Since we don't line list our bids we usually get our price but sometimes have to drop it a little. I've been doing them for years and have a really easy, quick process and a serious library of drop and drag components.

I think it has worked well for us in the past but now that we are more aware of bulletproof control... we must move toward it. I spend too much time on troubleshooting this part of the system. My installers take it to the point where I come in. My other goal is to get them to do the finish programming as well so they can feel the pain they leave me with (that and to lower my week to say... 70 hours).

My bug with Crestron is that there is no way I can become Crestron man... can't find the time and don't want to take it over. That and the $15,000.00 buy in plus steep learning curve. On the other side though... I hate the idea of Windows based systems... who needs the automation system crashing daily or catching a virus when the teenage kid downloads porn clips.

I've thought about farming out but a friend of mine who did that found that the "programmer/wolf in sheeps clothing" was marketing his clients... plus if I don't know the system and that guy gets run over by a truck we're both hosed. For that reason I want to keep it in house.

As you can tell, I'm at a crossroads (actually more like a Paris Roundabout) and want to make the right turn. Thanks again for your input... I imagine I could easily include the price of the basic Crestron system as that is not that far over and as you state... the reliability would be worth its weight in gold."

A Pronto can be a neat tool... My problem with Intellicontrol is the same as Alan mentioned... no nomenclature. With that system you are still the only one who can reliably operate your system. The way we do Prontos the 8 to 80 year old guest can operate them as well... without usually messing things up.

A lot of it is based on product selection. One of our bases for products are those we know work well and are repeatable. Thats why the client who calls us with a bunch of Best Buy/ Circuit City boxes that we've never dealt with gets referred elsewhere.

In the e-mail I received there was also a good comment about access to RS232 codes that are completely unavailable in any form of IR. Some such as screen ratio, startups, etc. I cansee as being very valuable.

I went to CEDIA this year with the goal in mind of finding a Crestron/AMX price beater that was way more reliable than a Pronto...a lot of new ideas but still not settled on anything.

rhm9,

I know exactly what you're going through. Unfortunately I don't have any better suggestions other than what you have already received. However, I too have an IR problem that I am hoping someone can help me with:

I have a rack system (with a marantz sr7400 receiver) controlled via a xantech IR system. The problem is, that ONLY in the mornings, the receiver will not respond to IR commands for the first 5 or 6 times, either via the front emitter or the rca rc5 jack on the back. After that first 5 or 6 times, it works flawlessly. There are two completely independent IR systems running on this rack, one for the clients Family Room, and another for their Whole house audio. The family room system looks like this: Dinky Link receiver ---Cat5---789-50 universal interface---791 amplified connecting block---emitters to components EXCEPT marantz receiver---ir out to marantz rc5 input jack. Previously, the marantz would not accept factory or rc9500 commands via the front IR receiver port if something was plugged into the Multi RC input, so we pulled the emitter from the front. When we pulled the multi RC plug from the back of the marantz, it worked fine, but then the customer could not use their IR receivers in the rest of the house, which are Xantech IR volume controls. Now, it seems like any time we have an IR plug plugged into the back of the receiver, either on multi rc in or rc5 in, it will not accept ir from the front, AND it will not work for the first 5 or 6 tries in the morning, which is the same problem we have been having from day one. If I'm running all over the place on this one, I apologize, but I am SO confused, I've gone cross-eyed! We've pulled the marantz and replaced it with another, checked the 789-50 jumpers, replaced a power supply, made sure that there were not redundant power supplies on the IR system...I only have these things left to do, and then I'm really going to go crazy: double up on the cat5 wiring going to the dinky link (running 3 wires now), add jumpers to the 791 amplified block, or GET RID OF THE MARANTZ!!!! Thanks for everyone's help, and thanks for contributing to this forum!

For once, I agree 100% with the Q. Show no mercy.

Excellent, excellent advice.

I have had IR blocked by sunlight off the choppy waves of the Pacific Ocean off Malibu, where the ocean is due south so Ir control is impossible during two hours of the afternoon. And, of course, the curtains are IR controlled so once you are in that time period, you must control things digitally. As in the digits on your hand.

AudioPlex has NOT been the solution for me. I don't do a plasma with an IR remote system.

I insist on a Pronto, and have had zero problems with them. Really. Zero. Unless, of course, you are talking about the totally stupid not-ready-for-anyone-but-the-hobbyist-who-has-no-wife-and-kids-now-or-won't-after-all-the-time-it-took-to-get-the-remote-to-work NG variety of Prontos and Marantzes. After I found that these remotes can modify working learned codes into unworking ones (and that lovely "feature" cannot be turned off), I quit selling them at all.

Rob,
What a problem!

First, I am not familiar with a 789-50 and it is not listed at Xantech.com. Just what is it?

Second, if I get this right, you have the “wake-up” problem when you use the rear input, right? And only then? The joke answer is to create a macro on your remote control that tells it, say NINE times, to turn on! The real answer: Just use an emitter on the front, BUT:

Are you saying that the Marantz will only respond to the commands from the Xantech volume control sensors if those commands go into the back of the machine? If so, then you are screwed. Otherwise, take the control signal from the family room system and the control signal from the Xantech volume controls and combine them. Xantech has a two-(IR) zone controller that will do this and give you a common out, or you can do what I do: just connect the buses together! Most Xantech products are wired so that multiple bus signals can just be wired in parallel (I have had to insert a resistor with the CC12 and CC62).

I quit a long time ago using the MX-800 because of poor RF performance even with the 3.0 firmware version. I was doing and install two weeks ago with a Xantech IR system where the plasma was giving me a headache with the interference no matter where I located the sensor inside the room. Also I had to put a sensor outside to control the second zone from the pool area and the sun would hit the sensor for about 2 hours in the afternoon. So I decided to give the MX-800 another shot. The firmware version is now 3.5 and it worked like a charm. I have the base unit inside a rack in a cabinet and I can control the system from the pool area more than 50ft away.

You've definately hit a rut. Happens to all of us. The answer for most of my IR problems has been the MX-800. adding RS-232 and power sensing would take it to the next level. I suppose I could use the Xantech power sensing equipment, but I haven't yet.

For the few of us stupid enough to use Harman Kardon equipment they are working on an interface box for the direct connection in the back. Thank You Lord.

In my limited world I have yet to find a single integrator that ever went back to pronto after using the MX 700/800. They have had some problems but the support is there.

Stomp the little bastards! Seriously, I've had problems if there is an IR based security system in the room. It will flood the room with IR and will cause bad learning although the lying Pronto will tell you that it learned properly. Many times have had to go into bathroom with computer and remotes to get real codes. Just an idea.

just an FYI for everyone on the ZC21 two zone block from Xantech, it only has 1 mA of output on the common out, and even though the "distructions" (instructions) show the common out going into a 789-44 or compariable connecting block it will not work, I have tried, even talked with the techs as Xantech and they agree its a no go. Did not have much luck with their 795-20 either, but that unit has other issues.