per the advice of a felow user, this post has been transplanted from the pronto forum to this one. i received no replies on the pronto forum, perhaps i'll get a better response on this one. for those of you who may have read this already, sorry.
the original post read:

first: I AM A DEALER/PROGRAMMER not a customer who wants a $40,000 system for $13.78 trying to find out if his installer is trying to screw him.
i wanted to make that clear first. i just read through a thread on this site where some guy got the crap kicked out of him because he didn't specify that he was a dealer.

ok, i have been programming prontos for about a year now. we have been charging $300 for a basic activity based h.t. config with all macros, nice buttons etc.. i read a thread yesterday that made me feel like i was being "pimped out" (ernie) is this enough? or should we be charging more?
for example, a system with a plasma, dvd, vcr, cd and a sat rcvr with no 2nd zone, "advanced features" or direct channel access etc would be 300 bucks.
i would like very much for a few people to respond with how much they would charge for this type of config. assume that all codes are in your personal database and you don't have to hunt for codes, you have all discreets so you don't have to write a 15-step macro to get the tv to the component input.
hopefully that will be enough info for a few responses. btw i'm in st louis, in your response, please include where in the country you are.
thanks in advance!
mike

$300 strikes me as being about right for programming, assuming you walk into a room with a fully operating system and all that is needed is getting the remote to tie it all together. Your qualifiers (no second zone, channel icons, etc.) show me that you've taken that all into consideration or been burned by unanticipated extras in the past (I've been burned, and have the scars to prove it).

We charge $100 per hour for xantech, pronto, HTM, and RTI. We also have a minimun of $100.

Mike

How good and fast are you at giving the $300 "basic"(s)

How sure are you that you won't return 3-10 times to make it a little more personal for them? If you can do it in 3-5 hours and walk away,never to return, I'd say that's a pretty good deal for you and the customer. I'd also say that with only three hours into it, it's probably not that special of a Pronto setup and not using it to the fullest of its abilities, thereby making it a glorified touchscreen universal remote.
Also, you say that we should assume that all codes are in our personal database and you have all the discreets and that everything is just plain perfect with this install. How often do you get such perfection? I believe it's rare.
It takes a programmer a good deal of time and effort and money (laptop stuff, education) to get good at programming, finding codes, making it look nice, and training the user. $300 is a good start but it really needs to be the most basic of basic and go up from there.
The systems we install have just enough markup in them to absorb the very basic programming but we still throw in a programming fee of about $350 and set a limit to the number of hours that we'll apply, (depending on how much we like the customer)sounds awful but it's true. You don't have that luxury if you are a dealer/programmer.

This message was edited by ChicAugur on 09/21/04 11:19 ET.

The nice thing about our Home theaters is that we most of the time use the same equipment and only use equipment that has discete codes. All of our projects are saved on the same laptop computer and allow us to click and drag most of the IR codes from previous projects. We do run into problems when the customer has stuff they purchased somewhere else. On basic TSU500 pronto's and HTM i can program up very quickly with the equipment that we sell. Throw in a DVD/VCR combo or another piece of equipment and then you start adding up more time. When you move into the Xantech SPLCD's and MX3000's you have alot more programming involved in the graphics part of the programming. Also when programming favorites this can take a tremendous amount of time. I have had remotes that take 15 minutes and onse that take hours, it all depends. We als get a 74.95 trip charge out to the customers house. We have actually been thinking about raising our Programming rates. I also use alot of the MAC1 minimacronizer's which add a few more hours onto the programming, but increase the reliabliity of the end users ability to use their system. And you can avoid many return trips by using the Xantech MAC1, check it out. You can increase you time delays while not having the customer keeping the remote control aimed at the IR receiver. The MAC1 Remembers all of the IR Macro's increasing relibility. Ever since using this product for the first tiem a month ago I a sold on the MAC1. Sorry about the rambing on...

Mike

$300 seems a little cheap but it depnds on what you are doing (interface wise), with what (what type of gear and level of integrations), and for who.

Personally I have always squarely aimed at Crestrons. I looked at what they were able to do and was shocked at the crap interfaces I saw at job sites. The best part was the $5000+ price tags. And that was for the lousy ones. (now in all seriousness.. I have seen some really great work too... but the crap is for too common.)

Being a true geek and really wanting to do a good job I spend hours and hours coming up with interfaces and working out how to use gear before we even decide to carry it. But the pay off is that when i came on board the bussiness model of the the company changed. Jobs had to be spec'd for a minimum of 5 return trips just for client education. That eats a company alive.

Now when I started here they never used anything higher than a MX500 and those did not give the customer a feeling of confidence. They only sort of understood the remote and had to understand too much about the gear they were controlling. My opinion of a remote like that for a full blow theater... lights, projector, lifts, DVD, receiver,Surround Processing, etc... if they can control that whole system using a remote that is litterly like... NOW YOU NEED TO GO TO THE FUNCTIONS FOR THIS DEVICE. NOW PICK UP THAT DEVICE REMOTE... If they could do all that... they they don't need a custom install company. Sell the people the gear and be done with them.

Now custom jobs involve people who want the stuff to work and don't care or what to know how it works. they want to pick it up and use it in a few minutes. MOST IMPORTANT>>> "IT MUST WORK THE SAME EFD!"

The time spent to make sure this happens is the most improtant thing of it. People don't care how pretty, nice, much, what ever... when it doesn't work THEY HATE THE SYSTEM AND THE PEOPLE WHO PUT IT IN.

This is why service calls are handeled quickly and nicely. :)

I digress.

Since my arival the company actually looks at factors like useability and control of devices. Suddenly we manage to turn out better systems. Well better to the client... clients get a hi degree of reliability. I can't tell you how many systems I have seen that look and sound like crap... but THE CUSTOMER CAN USE IT. That is what 90% of the people care about.

Think OZZY OSBORN sp with his remote.

Taking the time to match up the gear with the programming... there are VERY HAPPY CUSTOMERS that have seen us all of once.

The real point. When you are looking at your program fees.. look at what it costs to go back several dozen times to teach the customer... "No for DVD first you got to flip this to Component 3 by pressing this button 4 times, then you pick up this remote and start the disc and finally use this one to control the volume."

Look at the price of the completed system and charge enough so you feel you are getting paid fairly... but also enough that it is worth your time to service the unit QUICKLY if need be.

Where do I keep finding these soap boxes?