OK, Now I think I'm stating to understand the confusion here......

I personally dont consider i/o "Control" I certainly agree that Keyboards, Mice Joysticks, Scanners, etc offer Input, and even output but When I'm talking control, I usually am looking for an interface to my AMX Control processor......

The AMX USB Stick simply contains software from what i understand.... As I can control my PC from a Modero and I dont have the USB stick, and never did....

Crestrons new panels are Wi-Fi, as are the AMX MVP panels.

If you use a USB--->Ethernet adaptor, are you controlling the device via USB or Ethernet? I would consider that Ethernet, TCP/IP control (Orginal Fireball comes to mind)

Anyway, hope that helps on some of your queries, and sheds a bit of light on why I went on a bit of a rant there...........

RS232 capability aside, I really am impressed with Yamah over the last three or four years. Their RX series recievers are in my opinion complete winners with features and build quality a notch above anything in their class, and at par with some of the so called higher end products.

Impaqt,

No confussion on control. You missed the products that are indeed configured AND controlled by USB such as the Meridian G series (yes, they still have legacy also, they are just being a forward thinker and added the USB to their newest models, my entire point on asking what Yamaha was doing their latest with USB). Maybe the word "change" to USB should have been "added". That would be ideal for us, but with real estate short we may not have that luxury on many units.

The black box info on USB was what I thought you were asking for in your previous comment. Most of these are adapaters for I/O. I agree that if you are sending the commands over Etherenet then it is Ethernet control, regardless of how it gets into the final box.

Yes, the AMX is a memory stick with software and is their newest and easiest way to control a PC from a Modero. AMX supports a variety of ways to talk to PCs including their TPI, AXlink to COM adapter, etc.

On the Crestron, I know it is WiFi to and from the PRO2 to act as a touchscreen, but how are they doing the PC Control functions? If this is also wireless, how do you determine which you are controlling, the PRO2 or the PC? Also, FYI, according to their website, setup on BOTH the panel and the docking station is via USB...probably due the fact that ViewSonic makes it and they know legacy is going away!

Alan's point on TCP/IP is exactly why manufacturers will probably want to keep serial (RS232, USB or whatever) as their configuration/setup and update method of choice which is where many of our "control" abilities stem from (I contend most are not putting those interfaces their for us to use on AMX/Crestron, but rather to give them support capabilites via downloads).

Without creating another war, you and Alan MAY have missed my reason for posting in the first place, so let me restate it. Not to argue symantics or educate on serial. Again, I apologize for being defensive but since the thread has taken a bad turn, I don't want the point to get lost, so here is a summary (not an attack or correction of anyone!):


Because Notebook PCs are quickly losing legacy serial port support and I don't feel we can change that, I am calling for CE manufacturers to get up-to-date and either add or change to USB since it seems to be the most viable at this time.

Are there other solutions? Sure, like make better adapters and that should be a solution to support older products, not new ones. In the mean time, we must use adapters that give quirks and cost us time to reboot, pray or whatever. Wouldn't you like your manufacturers to support you in this issue and save you time and money?

As an analogy, wouldn't it be dumb for GM or Ford to continue making cars that required leaded gasoline (legacy ports) when they new the gas stations (PCs) wouldn't have it available anymore? Sure, you can buy an additive (adapter) and HOPE you mix it well enough to work ALL of the time...but when it doesn't (compatibility issues) and your valves burn (wasted time) who is going to pick up the bill?



oex,

Thanks for the post as you meant it to be...letting us know about a feature on a new product. I am not a Yamaha dealer but I am glad to see more and more responding to the needs of custom installers. I switched to Integra from Marantz to support a company that was supporting us (even their $350 DVD player has both rear IR and a legacy DB9, and yes, they are looking into the legacy port problem and looking at USB).

Randy

Crestron still requires E-control to run on its Wi-Fi panel to perform control system funcitons and it does not permit program downloads so no viruses can enter the panel. It would then fall to the router to pass the appripriate packet to the correct Mac address, just like any other network device. E-control can run either from a browser or via an .exe file.

Previously, touch panel control of a computer requred a RGB hard wired connectioin and the serial mouse driver. Crestron, unlike AMX, does not support VNC although I suspose you might be able to use it on the new I/O Wi-Fi panel. I have one but I have not unboxed it nor begun to play with it. Hopefully, just after CEDIA.

And I both enjoyed and learned form your original response to Inpaqt. Also Integra has had serial control on its 600 dollar receivers and 400 DVD players for 2 years. It's about time that the other majors caught up.

edited for spelling.
Alan

Alan,

Thanks for the info....I have not gotten my hands on one yet and did not know they were relying on e-Control. That is a bit of a disappointment.

One of my problems with the Xplore panels was that, since they also relied on a program, it would frequently get the old hour glass in-between screen changes....when you unbox it can you let me know if it does the same thing or is it instantaneous? I have customer's that already complain about the video redraw times on Crestron panels so I know they would not like that.

Like I said, Integra earned my support....although it is small...we only do a little under $50K a year with them since we don't do a lot of lower end systems.

Randy

Your post on rxv1500 caught my attention as i am looking at buying the rxv1400 which apparently is the precursor to the 1500. I tried to investigate what the 1500 is without success. Yamaha says they don;t have literature yet, and certainly no date for release.

I am not a real sophisticated HT buff but I don't want to buy somethng that is obsolete the day i buy it. I am a little computer savy so i do understand the benefit of the ability to download software upgrades and extended codes via a computer. THe rxv1400 does not have that capability,so maybe it is a good idea to delay my purchase decision? Your input would be helpful. Thanks.

1500's are out. I recieved a few this week. i'll post lit this weekend

Although I may be beating a dead horse here...

The topic of serial ports came up today with discussions of purchasing a new field laptop. Of course we need the serial port. It is the least common denominator in all industries.

If you find that 'perfect' laptop but it doesn't have the DB-9 serial, take a look at Socket Communications which manufactures ruggedized PCMCIA cards with one, two or four hardwired or removable cables and even a compact flash single port model.

As per the discussions of future trends, just remember: if it has a TCP/IP port, it has a LOT of software running behind it and embedded systems or not, can lock up. Still want to do away with serial ports? Didn't think so.

And Randy, please don't take this as bashing but I would never, ever in a million years design a product with USB taking the place of low-level supervisory port such as RS-232. Just take my word for it.

TCP/IP is relatively new to A/V and home automation and the manufacturers will need some time to sort out reliability issues before making the leap from low-level. Personally, I'm keeping my eyes on 802.14.4 (ZigBee). Many other industries are going to drive adoption of this wireless protocol - particularly process control - for high reliability control and low-bandwidth data, ours included.

Does the 1500 have an RS-232 port? I have tried, to confirm but have been unable

Yes it does. Same as the old RXV2400. I have a file I'll email you with spec's on the new 1500 and 2500.

[Link: balatonmarketing.com]
[Link: balatonmarketing.com]

This message was edited by oex on 09/18/04 15:27 ET.

Has Yamaha dropped the THX select certification on the 1500 and 2500s? I don't see it in the spec sheet you posted?

meeting with my field rep thursday. post afterwards. I can tell you that both the old 1400 and 2400 are DYNOMITE pieces for the money.