That book is nice. I have copy and read most of it.

In my opinion the main reason that questions like "which size TV did you want to go with" force them to say either "no" or commit to moving forward. It is amazing how often we, as salesmen, walk away from a sales call without ever actually asking for the customer's business. If you rewound some of your sales calls in your head I bet that you would find that it would be difficult for the customer to find a time in the conversation that you actually invited the customer to move forward.

We pitch our product and ourselves, but then we back away from the conversation and give them time to think about it. If we did a good job they will never be more ready to commit than at the end of that conversation. Allowing them time to think only breeds new distractions and chances for competition. Unless you did a good job selling against the half-truths that the next CI that comes along will tell ("I don't think their system does that.") then that guy is now in a much better position to close that sale.

Paul, you've gotta understand that not everyone works in Santa Barbara. We've seen the houses you work on, that's not the case for many of us. Sure, your clients can do what they want with their money because they've got a lot of it, it simply doesn't matter how they pay you.

however, if you give the average middle class or upper middle class customer the ability to pay by card, its just another avenue for us to open the door for more work. Yep, I paid $4000 for 150k, and I was happy to do it. Even if I was able to get half of those customers without credit cards it still a good investment.

As far as sales tactics and clients seeing through them....when done properly its simply viewed as conversation.  They have no idea they're being sold, too many people think of sales as something unscrupulous, its not. It's what keeps the world spinning. Being good at your craft doesn't mean you're doing something underhanded.

I won't talk you out of quitting. I'm trying to decide whether I want to buy a canoe rental/campground in central Texas, or move to San Diego and partner on a grow operation/dispensary with a friend. I'll revive my abandoned job burnout thread later.

In agreement, I can see how using the credit cards is beneficial for collecting on smaller invoices. Some months I may only have 6-8 invoices to submit and collect and many of you guys are doing that many (or more) each day.

Having to wait for checks, deposit them and chase around unpaid bills would be a huge time suck if you're doing lots of invoicing and not taking credit cards.  



Last night I ordered a couple of the books that were recommended.  All my background is technical and I'm a terrible salesman.  I've been lucky that I win most of my work through reputation and often come recommended strongly enough that I'm not even bidding against others.  If my situation ever changes I'd like to have some better skills when it comes to closing deals.

Excellent thread.

Have never read the Bay Audio book before so I also bought it.

If you want to get better at what you do and make more money you have to work at it and constantly work on ways of bettering yourself. Or you can just keep doing the same thing over and over again and whine about it.

Definition of insanity...

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I thought I'd throw in a tidbit...

Many customers don't have a budget, because they are not sure what exactly they want. This could mean they want a 100" Stewart screen and great projector installed for $2000, or it could mean that they are not sure what they are willing to spend, and simply need to discuss a bit what features they are considering, and what price points those might be.

Usually a bit of discussion around price points for various features will help good customers settle on what they want, and a budget.

One thing that you also need to understand is that your bread and butter is in the smaller Jobs where there are 5-6 guys doing the exact same thing and sales are absolutely crucial. Dont get me wrong sales is needed especially for the jobs that are in between the much larger projects.

Another thing is that most jobs that some of us are focusing on cannot be designed and finalized on the clients kitchen table on the first meeting. There is generally a few days from the initial meeting to when the proposal is completed and a reschedule is required to come back and propose the system, only then is when you can edit things in front of clients and possibly close the sale, this of course requires a program such as D-Tools and your laptop.

The clientele that I now mostly service usually have come from WOM and ive been given such high regards that im not bidding against someone else.

You guys that have your heads in those salesbooks DAILY need to also be very careful of "becoming a sales puke" I have won numerous jobs because clients have said i actually listened to them and understood their requirements and made them feel comfortable rather then just another "client number in a companies database"

to 98% of the general population AV and the stuff we do is a total mystery and is is "vudu". I have also seen clients completely turned away from doing larger systems because someone from the area that is much bigger and has admittedly said behind closed doors "hes an epic salesmen" scared the shit out of them by over selling.

You guys also have to remember MOST of our clients are business owners themselves or in sales and are quite often put off by the usual "by the book" salespuke shit these books preach that everyone else and their brother has read. Its the same stuff written 200 million different ways.

Everyone's clientele is different, the last 3 years of re branding my business has brought me into the group of clients that are extremely wealthy and dont have time to deal with "by the book sales" and are quite often put off by high pressure sales..one of the best pieces of advice that i have ever been given was by a customer of mine that is in the painting business, he does very high end work but to clients a painter is just a painter. It is not uncommon for him to be against Certapro, trunk slammers etc. all those guys are sales guys, he introduces himself and says I am not here to give you a salespitch on what type of paint we use and how our guys are background checked etc. He then says i am here to provide the best possible service and outcome for your project...so before you by the book sales guys jump on him and his ways He is a millionaire and is one of TWO high end painters in the area.

I have been blessed that i can read people very well and know when its time to put the sales cap on or back off a bit. Im not saying i don't have room for improvement but like pauls comment and to put it bluntly my type of clientele will and are most definitely put off by these types of sales tactics.

one thing that does sell very much and is the best sales thing you can do is CONFIDENCE. If you dont have confidence in yourself or the products your selling you chances of a sale are slim to none. Confidence comes first, then listening to your client and then the sales IMHO.

+1!!! Could not agree more!

The ability to listen, know when to shut up and read peoples vibes is primary. I took sales courses early on in my career, and I have to admit, in any transaction, if I feel like I'm being "sold to" I run!

Also missing a panel for "I fully understand my financial situation, a$$hole, but I don't know how much a decent system should cost."

About Square:

I don't understand the mentality here. It sounds like you're saying Square isn't worthwhile for larger transactions. It seems to me that an acceptable cost percentage is the same at all bottom line amounts. Are you freaking out that it would be $4,125? Undo your freak by realizing that's on $150,000. The same rate is $4.13 on $150... that's just as okay or not okay.

KeithDBrown made a GREAT point: if you don't close the sale during your conversation, you open the door for another guy to tell the client that you did not tell the truth (or however gently you might want to phrase that). Remember this: people are more likely to go with the person they are talking to face to face than the person they talked with before. It takes much more emotional effort and conscious belief in logic to deny a deal to a person in your face than to deny the deal to the guy who isn't in the room whom you talked with three days ago!


Yeah, but there's a sales lesson even in that: these writers are presenting exactly the same information in some slightly different form and YOU'RE BUYING IT! THEY MADE A SALE!


Confidence shows when you do not look desperate to make the sale. As several people have said, "the most important thing is sincerity. Once you can fake that, you've got it made." If you really look interested in doing for the customer what the customer wants, and not in making a sale so you can make some money, you're way ahead.

Which, by the way, makes me totally cross out the box labeled


If you have to sell what it in stock, at some point you will be lying to your customer about what is really THE BEST thing for him. You'll be presenting the best thing for your cash flow. There's nothing wrong with managing your cash flow, but beware that people can sense lies, even just the lie that transforms "they're pretty much the same" into "what I've got is what you need," or even worse, "what I've got is way better than the rest..." when it's only equal.

Sales are always "crucial"  I don't care what you're doing.  So, what you're saying is that you don't need to "sell"  larger projects?  I don't think you could type anything that is more off base.



Really?  So you think you can't close a sale on a large $20-50k project in one meeting?  I've done it, can do it, and will do it again.  I'm not going to tell you how it's done, because it's just sales puke stuff....It's all non-sense.




And what about the clients who don't know how big your dick is?



Who ever said that sales doesn't require listening?  Nobody.



If he "over sold" them, he's not quite as good a salesman as he thinks he is.




Who said anything about a sales book?  We said read a sales book, not use one. Can you please tell me a few different sales techniques since you're an expert on sales?  Funny, you're saying sales doesn't work, but you only work for the really wealthy, and they just so happen to be......salespeople?  (your words, not mine)




You realize that what he described to you, is actually a tried and true sales tactic right?  He literally just gave you his sales "script"  but you didn't even realize it.  He's selling himself and the experience, not the paint.



As I already stated, you can't really recognize a sales tactic in the first place, so you probably don't want to give advice on selling.  If you want to give advice on bidding and hoping, that's fine, but selling not so much.  As I mentioned to Paul, a good sales tactic looks and sounds like conversation, just like what the painter told you.

If you're working on mostly referrals, you're an order taker, not selling.  The closing percentage on referral business is ridiculous, the reason?  The prior customer sold it for you....you're only their to take the order.


But I'm not getting into a pissing match about this.  I couldn't care less.  I'm trying to help someone who missed at least one good opportunity. I don't give a shit how rich your clients are, what cars they drive, or how many islands they own.

See ya.



  

As Eastside AV mentioned, the assumptive close is a good one! That, and knowing when to STFU!!!! LOL! I've witnessed too many salesguys rattle on and on when the customer just wants to wrap up the deal!

To the op I completely understand your frustration. There is nothing wrong with not doing low end systems, if it doesn’t fit your business plan that is fine. If you have not read the Bay Audio book consider it a must read. Other sales books may be good but this one is written for our industry. You need to define your core systems, media room, theater, lighting, shades, etc. For each system offer different price points and be able to state what features they gain/loose going up or down in price. The most important part is to define your minimum system for each category. Minimum system is something that you can confidently put in and know it will work well with a minimum amount of service.


Most people have no idea what a system costs or even what the want or what is possible. The ones that think they have an idea have generally just added up the cost of the display, speakers, AVR and Blu Ray. They haven’t added in the costs of everything that makes the system work and the labor so they grossly underestimate what the system costs. People at least have a ballpark for things like houses and cars; we need to give them a ballpark price. The thing I have found that works best is examples of past systems. Showing people what they can get at each price point gets them to focus on what they want without having to ask the budget question. People will move away from what they thought they were going to spend and buy what they want or what they actually can afford.
Never quote or propose anything. Give them the ballpark number and then get them to sign a design contract. How much you charge depends on your market and the level of design you offer but the main point is you establish that your time is valuable. We are service providers if someone is unwilling to pay for your services then move on to someone who will.

That one is on another sheet titled "Tire Kicker 101".

As the other reply states, you have to ask open-ended questions. Sometimes, a Yes or No answer is fine, but not when you're qualifying the customer and this is the stage that makes a happy client- you can't possibly do this without knowing what they want, unless it's by coincidence.

If they become annoyed, and I wouldn't advise testing their patience, find a tactful way to get them to see that you don't read minds and that's what a lot of potential customers seem to think we do.