surge protection = snake oil + you guys dumb

I think that's the gist of it.

In the FAQ of the same document:

Q – When looking at the devices offered in the store, the packages show specifications and claims that puzzle me.  Can you explain?

A’s = Here are some typical specifications and corresponding comments:
Joules – A (simplified) measure of the surge energy that the protector can dissipate without damage to itself.  The higher the value, the more energy the protector can handle.  Typical values range from about 100 joules, up to 1000 joules or more.  Because this joule number is often based on the three combinations of the wiring, many specifications show the total joules rather than a breakdown among each of the three combinations.  Maximum surge current (below) may give better information.


This is what NIST says about those "useless" devices in the FAQ:

To be more relaxed bout protection in other rooms, it would be a good idea to install a surge protector for each of the sensitive appliances because of the problem explained on page 12 (see the next Q&A on the whole-house protection and Figure 3 on page 19.)

Q – Will a surge protector installed at the service entrance be sufficient for the whole house?
A – There are two answers to that question: yes for one-line appliances, NO for two-link appliances.  Since most homes today have some ind of two-link appliances, the prudent answer to the question would be NO – but that does not mean that a surge protector installed at the service entrance is useless.  [ Goes on to explain the benefits of whole house protection for large incoming surges]

By two-link they mean any device that has other connections such as phone, cable, sattelite, etc. 

There is more in there related to the post I initially made to you regarding other types of internally generated surges which I will come back to later.

For now, do you have an explaination of why your NIST reference contradicts what you said regarding phone/cable connections being already protected and hence no reason to worry?  Have you read why NIST does worry?


Except that unlike you, they don't ignore internally generated surges and voltage differential due to different connections to the same device.


And that same principal means that an internally generate surge will not benefit from that grounding and hence, will create surges.  You must put similar devices at every point where such inductive loads exist.

The best surge protector is a human. One that unplugs all the gear prior to a storm. Hey if we are going to talk hypothetical here, I might as well throw mine in.

My recommendations? I am not entirely sure you have read anything I wrote. These were not my recommendations, I was simply... forget it, you won't care.

Please tell us how to properly protect my, clients home. Or are you saying that we don't have to do anything at all since it is designed that way from the get go?

Yes - by far, best protection if properly installed. See numbers below. Questions about magic boxes should be shelved. Critically important points were posted repeatedly. For example, "A protector is only as effective as its earth ground." Therefore most every post should have asked for details. How it is accomplished. Why it does not exist in that house. What must be done?

Instead most replies keep discussing what does not do protection - the protector.

Your telco's $multi-million computer is connected to overhead wires all over town. You may suffer a surge every seven years. They suffer about 100 surges with each storm. What do they use? 'Whole house' solutions connected as short as possible to, well, what does protection? They don't waste money on Belkin, Monster, etc. Instead, money goes into actual protection.

At this point, I no longer remember how many times I might have mentioned this. Watched it completely ignored. How does the telco make all 100 surges irrelevant? Protector is connected 'low impedance' to what does protection. Nobody even asked what low impedance means. Telcos also demand protectors located up to 50 meters distant from electronics. That separation is also important for protection.

Where are questions about protection? Where are questions about earthing? Where are the questions about where energy dissipates? Where are questions about grossly undersized and obscenely overpriced protectors (ie Monster) that have even created house fires. Previously quoted was the IEEE that says that properly earthed protector does: "99.5% to 99.9% protection". Even those numbers were ignored.

iform did post numbers. For example, a 140 joule protector will somehow make hundreds of thousands of joules just disappear? A 3000 or 6000 Belkin or Monster - also near zero. Both only claim to protect from a surge that typically does no damage. Best is to not even mention the many types of surges. Or to discuss earth ground. They have larger profit margins to protect.

Meanwhile earthing is critically important. A surge that typically does damage is hunting for earth destructively via appliances (as noted so many times previously). Or remains harmlessly outside. Is that 100% protection? Of course not; only "99.5% to 99.9% protection".

Facilities that cannot have damage - especially munitions dumps - earth "a whole home surge unit, at the service entrance, with a short low impedance ground lead, to a properly installed ground." An employee could find himself unemployed if installing the Monster protector. Concept is that simple. Implementing it is the art. That art is found in every facility that cannot have damage - including homes.

Posted was :

That paragraph was an excellent place to start asking. Instead it was completely ignored.

Yes, the solution that cost tens or 100 times less money is "a whole home surge unit, at the service entrance, with a short low impedance ground lead, to a properly installed ground". As stated so many times previously.

Where to start asking? Maybe start by defining what you already have. Answer questions recently posted to Fins. But you have to ask what confuses you. And define what currently exists in your home. I cannot read your mind.

Wow

+1.
You still haven't told us how to protect our homes.

My god. Even bcf1963 told you how. Did you read anything?

Why is 100 years of well proven science so hard? Why do you again post an empty accusation? I cannot help with your confusion if you do not ask.

I did fuc*ing ask you conceited ass. And you then jump on me for asking.

Speak to me like I am a potential customer.

What would you do to protect my home?
What products do I need?
Do you supply them or where do I buy them?
What would you charge me for it?
Do you guarantee that my TV and surround system won't be damaged?
Who do I call if my street loses power and when the power comes back on, my surround system doesn't work?

Respond to these questions with simple to the point answers please.

Like this??  Under $300.




[Link: digital-loggers.com]

I know this piece very well and i Love it.

I had decided to ask a simple question, in an attempt to get a simple reply...



So, yes you believe in whole home surge protectors. Great. The rest of this just strikes me as someone on their soapbox, trying to make themselves sound superior.


So, more soapbox. How about answering the rest of the question...



So, you get back on your soapbox, without answering the rest of the question.


Blah, Blah, Blah... nobody is asking, because we all know what it means. It is just that the rest of us believe that putting a whole home surge unit in place is only part of the solution. You have yet to tell us if you do or don't think anything else is necessary. Ever think that nobody questions a whole home surge unit, because we all believe in them? DUH!


You are really fixated that we have to ask the questions you want asked. Have you noticed you have not answered the one question everyone here keeps asking you... WHAT DO YOU NEED IF ANYTHING IN ADDITION TO A WHOLE HOME SURGE UNIT. Is that clear enough for you yet, or perhaps you wish to go on another meaningless tirade about munitions dumps.

I have no more time to waste on such folly. If you wish to post such meaningless drivel as 100 times less expensive solutions, which you continue to use despite the english lesson on how idiotic such a statement it, then I and the others will happily wash my hands of this thread.

If you post what are ALL the elements to consider and include in a surge solution, we'll discuss those, otherwise I suspect that everyone here will have made up their mind about your true knowledge of the subject.

Let me just pick some random place to comment, because pretty much anywhere I get the same thing:


Okay, but your job as a smartass know-it-all is not to mention facts that should inspire people to ask questions. It's to make what you write THE ANSWER to the questions. If you're so smart, why are you waiting for people to ask more questions? Don't you know we're stupid and it won't occur to us to ask?

We, on the other hand, think that if you mention one more thing in the thousand things you've repeated and repeated, and don't elaborate, it must not be worth you spending time on it. So nobody asks questions.

Please answer or go away.

First you accuse of not elaborating. Then you accuse of posting those facts too many times. It’s just not that hard. What don’t you understand? Did you grasp anything posted? Apparently not. So you are attacking the messenger.

iform finally asked some questions only in his last post. All his questions will be answered. Those answers are found and quoted from previous posts.

Rather than attack the messenger, instead, post what you just cannot comprehend. I cannot read your mind. I have no idea what this simple stuff is so hard for you.. What exactly has you so confused?

Hopefully iform will follow with relevant questions so that I can clarify what he still does not grasp. And no more accusations or quotes from ’extreme profit’ protector manufacturers.

In your case, ask about what you cannot grasp rather than post so emotionally. What you called 'smartass' were the necessary details; provided only for you to learn what was known even 100 years ago. Apparently you don't grasp it. So ask rather than be nasty.

Let's be quite clear about your postings. You never asked any of these questions previously. If you did, I would not be complaining about so many recommending scam protectors (as you did in your earliest post). And never asking about what is relevant or important. You did a google search. Found plenty of myths and lies. Then posted them. Then complain because their useless information was exposed with numbers. At no time did you ask these (your latest) questions. Those questions were already answered. Those answers are quoted below.

> What would you do to protect my home?

Previously posted multiple times and summarized by bcf1963:

> What products do I need?
> Do you supply them or where do I buy them?

Posted previously:

Everything is easily performed by any guy who can replace a wall receptacle. If not capable, then one simply hires an electrician. Of course, that is obvious. Apparently the obvious must be stated.

> What would you charge me for it?

Repeatedly defined previously:

Still missing are most important questions about earthing. Where did you even ask about 'low impedance'? You still do not ask even though its importance was bluntly repeated often. :

> Do you guarantee that my TV and surround system won't be damaged?

Of course not. 100% protection does not exist. Lightning damage means you made the mistake. Only you are responsible for what makes that damage virtually impossible. Your question was answered repeatedly:

Only the homeowner is responsible for what averts that damage. If you do not learn what you are responsible for, then damage is due to this your mistake:

> Who do I call if my street loses power and when the power comes back
> on, my surround system doesn't work?

Why ask a question about the moon and green cheese? That question and surge protection are obviously completely different anomalies. Power loss is zero volts. AC power is 120 volts. Surges are thousands of volts. The discussion is about thousands of volts and 120 volts. Why discuss zero volts - a completely different anomaly? Those other anomalies were previously discussed:

Of course, you could call Panamax, Belkin, Monster, or other such manufacturers who claim big buck warranties. Good luck. And already answered:

Please read what was posted. All of your questions were already answered. You are still ignoring (not asking about) what is relevant and important.

And that was only about the 'secondary' protection system. Due to so many myths, denials, and accusation, we have let to discuss your 'primary' protection system.