I think it obvious at this point Mr. Westom is a shill. Not sure what company yet (maybe ZeroSurge) but certainly a shiller!

And although Mr. Westom has some good info and some of the statements are very true. He also is talking a bunch of crap at the same time.
Those of us who live in high lighting strike areas, have been doing this for 20+ years, and have used or seen just about everything on the market in action (or blown up as it may be); know how full of crap some of your statements are Mr. Westom.

That anomaly is completely different and irrelevant to this discussion. And completely irrelevant to the OP's question. Numerous anomalies exist including harmonics, frequency variation, phase inversions, EMI/EMC, voltage variation, power factor, etc. Nothing addresses all anomalies. Surge protection is irrelevant to and ignores those anomalies. Most anomalies are typically eliminated by internal appliance design.

Your anomaly obviously was completely irrelevant to surge protection. Your own implied number says surge protection systems must ignore that anomaly.

All appliances are connected to wires that act just like antennas. Threat exists even if that AC wire is underground. Why do electronics atop the Empire State Building and munitions in a munitions dump all remain unharmed after direct lightning strikes? Because surge protection even implemented over 100 years ago in telephone exchanges is still the best and least expensive solution for every home. Much of what we learned is found in what Ham radio operators and Ben Franklin discovered.

Do you have an appliance connected to AC mains? Then that AC wire down the street acts like an antenna connected to the appliance. Early 20th Century Ham operators learned what also applies to munitions dumps, telephone exchanges, nuclear hardened military facilities, cell phone towers, server farms ... and every appliance in your house including a rechargeable automobile.

But again, that is surge protection - what the OP asked about. Your case study was not. Even worse, your case study provided no numbers. Numbers would have made obvious: it had no relationship to another anomaly commonly called a surge.

Read ATX Standards for computers. Internal protection on AC mains uses numbers such as 1000 and 2000 volts. How many volts must an Ethernet withstand without damage? About 2000 volts. Why do my numbers say superior protection is already inside appliances? Why do you reply with subjective denials? Look. Honest replies include numbers. With numbers, you would have realized your example (case study) was irrelevant.

Electronics routinely contain superior protection. Numbers for a computer interface chip that meets the industry standard IEC 61000-4-2:
[Link: datasheets.maxim-ic.com]
Note the expression at the top of page one: "+-15kV ESD-Protected" Number says pretty good protection. Would you disagree?

Standards and semiconductors that routinely meet those standards define protection at 2000 and 15000 volts. Best protection at an appliance is already inside appliances. Surge protection is a concern for an anomaly that occurs maybe once every seven years. Simply repeating statistics posted earlier.

The OP asked for the simplest solution. He can have what the IEEE calls "99.5% to 99.5% protection" by earthing one 'whole house' protector from other and more responsible manufacturers. But again, more statistics. Spend little time discussing the protector. Spend inordinate time learning about the only item that defines protection. Even your case study completely ignored what is essential to have protection - earth ground.

Lightning is a typical surge. If any protector does not make lightning irrelevant. then it also does not address other typical problems such as stray cars. If it does not protect from lightning, this it is probably snake oil.

In one case, a 33,000 volt line fell upon local distribution. Electric meters literally exploded 10 meters (30 feet) from their pans. My friend had one 'whole house' protector - properly earthed. Other than an exploded electric meter, he had no other damage. At least 100 others had extensive damage. Even his 'whole house' protector was fine. Because he installed protection to make direct lightning strikes irrelevant - for about $1 per protected appliance.

The art of protection: a simple solution that disposes of snake oil promoted to sell Monster, Panamax, and APC products. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. More responsible 'whole house' manufacturers that provide useful solutions were listed previously.

How to make your vacation home protection effective: earthing must meet and exceed National Electrical Code requirements. Many electricians have not yet learned this when not cognizant of what even early 20th Century Ham operators knew.

I think Mr Westom is trying to say we are all doing everything wrong. And that in a perfect world, if everything is performed to laboratory settings, the house ground will prevent any surge from entering the home. Especially combined with WHS and lightning rods. But, the world isnt laboratory conditions. Most of us in this industry arent electricians. So we have to rely on someone else to properly install the high voltage and the ground. And possibly another company to install the lightning rods. And being that half the sparkys out there think it is ok to share a neutral between two circuits since they all just bolt down on the same blocks in the panel, we dont know what we will run up against. Therefore, the reality is, a big enough surge isnt going to be stopped. Heck, a big enough strike may even come into the house through the ground (Ive seen it happen). But even more likely, that surge will probably come through the phone line, which connects to a DSL modem, which connects to a router, which then goes to a network switch, where almost every piece of gear we install connects to the world wide web. Sure, someone could have put a surge protector on the phone line, but some one missed it. Or its going to come in through the cable line. And you tried to put it on a surge protector, but when the cable guy was there for a service call, he bypassed the surge protector because he has been indoctrinated to think that is why the ondemand services wouldnt work.

So tell them to buy a good insurance policy that lets you talk to a live agent (preferably locally too) and wait for the day to use that policy. Especially if they live on top of a mountain that is full rock laced with iron and other minerals.

If grasping fundamental facts points posted earlier, then obviously I do not work for and do not recommend Zerosurge. Earlier posted numbers make that obvious. Previously posted: How to identify an ineffective protector. 1) No dedicated wire for the short connection to single point earth ground. 2) Manufacturer will not discuss earthing. Zerosurge clearly meets both characteristics for ineffective protection. Please read what is posted before attacking.

So many replies. Not one has asked to learn how to have protection for tens or 100 times less money and without snake oil. But again, it demonstrates how many are easily manipulated by advertising. A majority will deny or 'attack the messenger' rather than learn how easily advertising promotes urban myths. Protection from direct lightning strikes is routine if one first learns from science and experience from over 100 years ago. Not one person (not even the OP) has yet asked to learn.

all right, lets hear it. How can we have protection for 10 years and 100 times less money?

Obviously not. But then your every post says you never read what I wrote. The point was made repeatedly. Rather than learn basic concepts, instead, you make 'subjective' accusations to subvert informed discussion. See that word subjective? As in no numbers. It also implies dishonesty.

Unlike you, I did this stuff. Direct lightning strikes without damage. By not spending so many times more money on snake oil from Panamax or Monster. Direct lightning strikes without damage are routine when one learns rather then denies - subjectively. How often do you make direct lightning strikes irrelevant? Your own posts say "never". And still you know more?

Repeated posts demonstrated that the informed have direct lightning strikes without damage. Why did you have repeated damage? And still know more?

You said, "the reality is, a big enough surge isnt going to be stopped." How strange. I have been saying that in every post that also says a big surge must cause no damage. Superior protection even exists on phone and cable - as even required by code. But anyone educated by advertising or observation would never know that.

At what point does anyone ask to learn how to have protection even from direct lightning strikes.

That part was already explained multiple times. Should you want to learn, then let's start with what you already have. How does every wire inside every cable enter the building? What other conductive materials enter (including well pump or gas line) and where? Including every connection to an outside antenna or dish. What and where are your earth grounds? How are they connected including length, any metallic conduit, how straight the wires, and what is adjacent to each ground wire? What is your geology? What is your neighborhood history for at least the last decade.

Do a search for him and you'll find this is his m.o. in other forums as well. Mix enough good info with some very odd stuff and not take input from anyone else. The end result is the same in each forum.

Not passing judgment, no complaints here, just passing along info.

If that's true, then you with your explanations longer than mine are not thinking clearly.

See, I've often wondered how it's possible to do something for, say, 100 times less money.

If something costs $1, well, two times that is $2, five times that is $5 -- that is, the unit we're talking about is a dollar. If something costs $1 and I then cite one times less than that amount, that is the original $1 minus one times a dollar... which gives me, then, zero dollars. It is impossible to do something for 100 times less money! 1 times less is all you get!

My general comment about westom is, gee, and I thought I was long-winded!  And if I sound that self-important and so in need of quoting spiffy technical terms, well, wow: I sincerely apologize.

I googled a lot about the info in this thread and here is a good article i have just read: [Link: electricalnotes.wordpress.com]

In this article, the writer recommends using a ‘point of use’ surge suppression device as a third step to suppress lightning and surge. As well as a first and second step, It is a good and easy read.
But for the third step, he recommends:

1. Fast clamping speed. Although he doesn't say what good is.
2. A 500 volt maximum UL rated suppression level.
3. Device offering protection for surges which occur between the ‘hot’ and neutral, between ‘hot’ and ground, as well as between neutral and ground.
4. It monitors the normal sine waves of regular household current. Surges can cause irregularities in these wave patterns. Good transient surge suppression devices ‘devour’ these voltage spikes
5. A device which has a joule rating of 140 or higher.

I have looked at some brands for these recommendations and I have found that Panamax M5400-PM and M7500Pro:
1. Lists no clamping speed.
2. Has a 330 volt suppression level.
3. Does protect over different lines.
4. Not entirely sure.
5. 1650-2125 joule rating.

Surgex SX2120 and SA1810:
1. Lists no clamping speed.
2. Has a 170 volt suppression level.
3. Doesn't say if they protect over different lines.
4. Not entirely sure.
5. Lists no joule rating.

Snap AV WattBox 600:
1. Lists no clamping speed.
2. Has 500 volt suppression level.
3. Does protect over different lines.
4. Not sure.
5. 6480 joule rating.

Belkin 12 outlet @$50:
1. Lists no clamping speed.
2. 500 volt suppression.
3. Doesn't say if they protect over different lines.
4. Doesn't say.
5. 3996 joule rating.

Monster HTS 5100 MKII Reference power center:
1. Less than 1 nanosecond clamping speed.
2. 330 volt suppression.
3. Does protect over different lines.
4. Not sure.
5. 6814 joule rating.

Now I know that a lot of this goes above my head but from what I have read so far, the best protection happens before and inside the electrical panel, which as far as I've seen, isn't in very many homes.

I think westom is referring to products like these: [Link: deltasurgeprotectors.com]
please correct me if I am wrong.

You state that no one has asked, then when he asks, you state it was already explained.
[I consider myself to have above average technical reading comprehension and I have not yet been able to decipher what it is that you are trying to communicate (+1 for Ernie's signature). For all your self proclaimed prowess, you really need to work on your ability to communicate if you want to actually help anyone.]

You then proceed to ask a bunch of questions that seem to imply that the solution is neither cheap nor simple and still avoid answering the direct question asked. Can we just assume the most common answers to all your questions as a jump off point and state answers/solutions clearly and concisely?

What's your game man? It's starting to seem like you just want to make everyone else wrong and yourself right.


I am in the business of installing expensive gear in peoples homes. They want that gear to last and I don't want that gear to break.

What steps need to be performed to make that gear last.

In addition to surges from out side the home (lightning, transformer failure, power wires falling, etc.) there are other conditions that can affect power for our equipment. Undervoltage, straight power failure, generators kicking on, sine wave degradation. There is also the consideration of surges entering from sources other then the A/C mains - Telephone, Cable/Sat/Antenna, every other conductor in the house, speakers, the ground/foundation, sprinklers, etc.

The specific case of surges over the A/C mains, you seem to have made a case for Whole House Surge and proper earthing. That doesn't make Surge Protection/Line Conditioning units "snake-oil" or us sheep brainwashed by marketing when we consider the protection of the entire system including all the other issues that can happen. Is your WHS with earthing going to save a amp from a brownout? Will the WHS do anything if lightning hits or arcs to the incoming cable feed for a house?

Please stop with the hyperbole and contribute the useful information that you may have in a friendly, clear way if you wish to help.

+1

The web is full of myths. A classic example is found in HowSutffWorks.com. In some cases, HowStuffWorks claims electricity works in ways it doesn't.

So let's deal with those technical suggestions. First clamping speed is irrelevant. All protectors respond in nanoseconds. How to significantly change that 'response' measurement? Measure where the lead enters the MOV body. Or measure from the other end of its three inch lead. Even the lead can seriously change the response number. Since their product really does not do any useful protection, then they need some number to cite: response time.

2) A 500 volt let-through voltage is unacceptable even to UL. Let-through voltage is printed on every protector's box. Either 330 volts or 400 volts. That means a typical protector does nothing until 120 volts mains exceed 330 volts.

3) That is 330 volts is between two wires. What happens during a 5000 volt surge? A surge current is approaching in the same direction on one or all AC wires. If the surge is only on one wire (hot wire), then a protector leaves 5,000 volts on the hot wire. And puts maybe 4670 volts on other wires. It simply connects a surge to more wires. Giving that surge even more paths to find earth destructively via any nearby appliance.

4) How often is your AC mains spiking to well over 330 volts? Suggested was a typical number. Maybe once every seven years?

All those spikes to be 'devoured' are ignored. If a protector 'devoured' spikes throughout the day, then it may be degraded and must be replaced daily or weekly. Especially if a near zero 140 joules. Those spikes (and even worse are spikes output by a UPS in battery backup mode) are made irrelevant by superior protection already inside every appliance - including GFCIs and dimmer switches.

5) Let's assume a protector is rated for 140 joules. That H-N/H-G/N-G protector will only use 47 and never more than 93 joules to protect. Meanwhile, how many joules in a typically destructive surge? Hundreds of thousands of joules. Where is the protection? Near zero.

Grossly undersizing means a tiny surge, too small to harm any appliance, can destroy the 140 joules protector. Then the naive will say, "My protector sacrificed itself to save my computer." Buy and recommend more grossly undersized and highly profitable protectors. A 'computer' protected itself. The scam is routine because so many only know from observation; saw damage; did not even learn what effective protectors do.

An effective protector earths even a direct lightning strike - and remains functional. An effective protector would never be a near zero 140 joules. Those near zero joules means the manufacturer can claim 100% protetion in advertising. Subjective claims make lying legal.

IOW that described protector does not protect from the typically destructive surge. It only protected from a type of surge that typically causes no damage due to superior protection already inside all appliances.

The NIST defines what a protector must do:

Protection means you know where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. The NIST then separates the superior solutions from ineffective protectors:

Where in those recommendations did they discuss energy? Where does that energy get connected? How does 47 joules in a protector eliminate destructive surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? Where is the always required low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet', wire not in metaliic conduit, etc) connection to earth? Why do they only discuss protectors that the NIST calls "useless"?

As I said, advertising has the majority believeing myths. Where does a Monster protector make the low impedance connection to earth? Where does Monster even discuss earthing - that the NIST says is so important?

Two completely different types of devices; both are called protectors. Your recommmendations only discuss the type described by the NIST as "useless". The other and superior 'whole house' protector always has that low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to what does protection. Does exactly what the NIST says a protector must do: "neither suppress nor arrest a surge, but simply divert it to ground,"

Single point earth ground. Not just any earth ground. Single point. A 'whole house' protector is the only solution always found in every facility that cannot have damage. Because a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Why did those recommendations never discuss ground AND never say where hundreds of thousands of joules are absorbed?

Your recommendations did not even mention two completely different devices that share a common name. They recommended protectors that the NIST called "useless".

Westom,

I was going to chime in, and correct some of your misstatements, but after reading this thread fully, I realize that to do so would be pure folly.

Let us take a different tact.

You have said again and again that we only need to pay attention to what you've said, and the solution has been in place for many years. Yet, I have yet to see where you stand up and say, "these are all the things you must do to provide a solution."

Instead, you seem more intent on telling everyone else how they are wrong. Why not tell us what you believe the solution is?

The only thing I've gleaned from your rather obtuse postings, is that you believe in a whole home surge unit, at the service entrance, with a short low impedance ground lead, to a properly installed ground.

Is that all that is needed to protect against lightning for a home? Is this adequate in all cases? Give us your list of what needs to be done... you say it's been understood for many years, so go ahead and let us know that you understand what it is.

It's time to quit telling everyone else how they are wrong, and give your solution. You keep saying you haven't been asked, but I see plenty of responses above that do so.

I will interpret any lack of your providing such a solution, as the response of an internet troll, and happily ignore you for eternity.

+1

It's like a late night get rich quick pitch (minus the long list of happy customers) I keep waiting for the "For just 3 easy flex payments of $49.95 i will send you what you need to unlock the secrets of electricity"...but it never comes.