Yea, but I've got video to prove you otherwise :-)

I guess you aren't too crazy about Furman.

And the name of the "superior Protection" that "informed" homeowners install?

I understand Noel Lee sells "sizzle". I have sold his products a very long time. I cannot attest to the veracity of his surge protection other than I have personally seen a TV that had noise coming over the A/C line get a clearer picture once I installed the above-mentioned Monster piece.

The other thing is that I understand that a direct hit by lightning = game over for electronics but anything has to be better than the $4.99 surge protector.

A customer of mine had a Monster HTS-5500, that big big big power surge and line conditioner... He was living in his new home for 3 days when a truck of the landscape company hit the temporary AC line installation outside. EVERYTHING that was connected into an AC outlet has died. Everything. Appliances, alarm, clocks, radio, shaver, microwave, water heater, computers, and of course A/V stuff. The HTS cover was melted down. I think I still have pictures somewhere...

At least, the landscape company's insurance paid for replacing everything!

But William David Design is right: a direct hit by lightning = game over for electronics...

Curious as to why you guys love Furman over Panamax? I'm confused as it looks like there is some crossover of parts between the two, or maybe one owns the other.

We were doing APC, then started using Episode but after really looking at them they don't really do anything (feature-wise)... so I think we're going with Panamax. Haven't really used Furman.

A valid recommendation defines how and where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Well proven solutions were based in what Franklin demonstrated in 1752. He connected lightning harmlessly to earth via a wire. But not all incoming utility cables can connect directly to earth. So a protector makes that connection. If a protector does not make a short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth, then the protector is ineffective.

Responsible companies sell superior 'whole house' protectors. Names that any guy would know include Intermatic, Leviton, Square D, ABB, General Electric, and Siemens. An effective Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50. In each case, a protector has a dedicated wire to connect to the only thing that does surge protection - single point earth ground.

Direct lightning strikes are typically 20,000 amps. Any minimally sufficient protector must make direct lightning strikes irrelevant. A minimally sized 'whole house' protector starts at 50,000 amps. It earths direct lightning strikes. And remains functional. Any protector that fails during a surge is how ineffective protectors get promoted by the naive. A protector must earth any surge. And not fail. But again, concept well understood even 100 years ago when science is not replaced by urban myth.

No protector does protection. Just to be clear because this paragraph is confronting popular lies. No protector does protection. Either a protector connects 50,000 amps harmlessly to earth. Or the protector does what with hundreds of thousands of joules? Where does energy dissipate? Either harmlessly outside to earth, or destructively inside the building. Only you make that choice. Once energy is inside, then nothing can avert a destructive hunt. Nothing.

Nothing as in did you read the manufacturer numeric specs for that protector or line conditioner? Where are protection numbers for that magic box? Never provided.

Your telephone company's computer is connected by overhead wires to buildings all over town. Why do they not waste money on products from APC, Monster, Furman, Belkin, Tripplite, etc? Because they disconnect phone service everytime a storm approaches? Of course not. Did anyone learn how protection is always done when direct lightning strikes cause no damage? A telephone CO suffers about 100 surges with every thunderstorm. So every single wire in every incoming cable connects short to single point earth ground via a 'whole house' protector. Then even direct lightning strikes cause no damage.

But telcos want even better protection. So protectors are separated from electronics by up to 50 meters (150 feet). Greater separation means increased surge protection. The concept is called wire impedance. You need not learn it. But wire impedance is also why protectors adjacent to the protected appliance can even make appliance damage easier.

Describes above is how surge protection from even direct lightning strikes was done even 100 years ago. Responsible protector sources cited. A critical spec number define - 50,000 amps. And what must always exist to make any proetctor effective - that short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to single point ground. Do you want protection? Or would you like to be scammed by hearsay recommendations? Your choice. Why do so many others not even post those Furman manufacturer specs? Hearsay somehow replaces honesty.

Defined above is only 'secondary' protection. Also learn about the 'primary' surge protection system. Retail propaganda also will not discuss that critical protection layer.

Another 'whole house' protector was installed for free at every home even long before anyone here was born? Another protector critical to effective protection because every single incoming wire must first connect to single point earth ground. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

Furman has better advertising. Another example of what is the only information source. And why so many recommend protectors that do not even list protection in their numeric specs.

Where are those Furman or Panamax spec numbers that list protection from each type of surge? Will not be provided. Neither manufacturer is claiming effective protection. Neither will discuss the hundreds of thousands of joules that must dissipate somewhere.

I am not overlooking anything. I am viewing the only thing that matters. Manufacturer numeric specs.

For example, voltage variations are only problematic when one is educated in hearsay. When did voltage variations harm any electronics? Never. Normal voltage for all electronics is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. How often is your household voltage dropping that low? And then read (learn from) manufacturer spec numbers. A light bulb at 50% intensity is normal voltage to all electronics.

Why is voltage variation harmful? Because the myth promotes sales. Because so many will believe a myth rather than first learn facts. What do manufacturer specifications and industry design standards demand? The most important question.

Same applies to power conditioners. Read the numbers. Or just hear the phrase “power conditioner”. Power conditioner sounds important. Therefore a majority recommend it?

Reality. Many power conditioners (especially many from Furman) have spec numbers equivalent to a $7 grocery store power strip protector. That is a $3 power strip with some ten cent protector parts. Sells as a power conditioner for how many $hundreds?

View a Monster example from Cubitus. Power strip protectors too often did that for decades. More scary pictures when any surge protector or power strip is not protected by only one 'whole house' protector:
[Link: hanford.gov]
[Link: ddxg.net]
[Link: zerosurge.com]
[Link: tinyurl.com] entitled "Surge Protector Fires"
[Link: www3.cw56.com]
[Link: nmsu.edu]
[Link: pennsburgfireco.com]

Routine is to have a direct lightning strike without damage. Therefore informed homeowners only spend $1 per appliance. A protector located short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to what does all protection: single point earth ground. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate?

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate in a protector rated only for hundreds of joules? That damning question alone is why so many ignored facts and numbers to make subjective (junk science) recommendations.

How to quickly identify an inferior protector. 1) It does not have a dedicated and necessary wire for the short connection to single point earth ground – where massive energy dissipates. 2) Manufacturer avoids all discussion about earthing. Those two points define so many protectors from Furman, Monster, APC, Belkin, etc.

Holy shxt! I think that Ernie and Stamp have created a supercomputer alter ego. Is Hal 9000 lurking around this forum?

In my rack lies a Panamax MAX-4300 and a MAX-1500.

Only issue I have is that the MAX-1500 doesn't like the power from my Generac Generator.


APC informed me that their S15BLK S type will work with my generator so one of these may replace the MAX-1500 since a several hours, or days, outage can be a problem.

Surgex & MiddleAtlantic for surge/power strip

APC or Crestron for UPS. Crestron unit is a rebadged APC with a front panel controller added to smarten it up.

I used these at a job last year : [Link: digital-loggers.com] They worked really well. I normally dont like vertical power strips stealing space at the back of the racks but at this project we had extra deep racks and a 2nd pair of rails for mounting odds and ends. I was able to install the vertical strip at the back and still have a vertical route for cables.



I had to install them upside down so that the power cords would make it back to the outlet which is mounted at the top left corner of the control closet.

Wow Westom,
You don't have a ****ing clue what you are talking about. Do you ever stop to wonder why you have been booted from nearly every forum you have entered?
Maybe thats because you're a douche and nobody appreciates a troll.

westom has a vested (financial) interest in whole-house surge
suppressers and nothing he says should be taken at face value. He
frequently posts totally incorrect information (for example, he is
unable to differentiate between a direct lightning strike, which almost
no-one can realistically protect against, and a surge caused by a nearby
lightning strike, which has straightforward, effective and well-proven
counter-measures).

westom (who has also posted as westom1, w_tom and w_tom1 morphs his
posting ID to evade killfiles) has been abusing forums for many years
and a common practice of his is lying and twisting what others say to
suit his own agenda.

Can we please boot this guy like the hundreds before us who already have.

Lloyd from Phillips Microtek or Westom (whichever you prefer)

If you are so interested in continuing your argument then why will you not oblige our very own Gizmologest or Michael McCook of SurgeX International when they call you out here? [Link: avsforum.com]

For those wanting to know the truth and the proper electrical wiring practice for AV systems read this white paper by Jim Brown with Audio Systems Group: [Link: audiosystemsgroup.com]

Regarding AV system interfaces, read the white papers of Bill Whitlock with Jensen Transformers: [Link: jensen-transformers.com]

Both of these gentlemen are experts in our industry, are active members of the AES and are driving forces on global standards committees. Both are available for direct communication.

For those further inclined to learn more about everything audio, take a SynAudCon course www.synaudcon.com

Thank Michael for the links.

All RC needs is another blowhard that professes to be an expert... But when pressed really is not.

Was that post # 5,000 for you?