Shows to be 5001 actually. The only thing I profess to be an expert on is being clueless BTW...

The lawyer in me got the vibe he was creepin' on this thread. Kind of saying a lot about nothing...

On 1293042122, WhiteVan Lifestyle said...

WhiteVan Lifestyle cites others who only agrees with what I posted. Anyone with basic grasp would not even quote the relevant parts. He cannot when he did not read it. His citation defines why effective protectors connect short (low impedance) to single point earth ground. And why that protection is so necessary for all potentially destructive surges including lightning and utility switching spikes.

What he obviously did not read from his own citation:
> To minimize the impedance (virtually all inductive reactance) of this
> conductor, it is critical that it be as short as possible.

Critical that a protector connect as short as possible to earth. And no sharp wire bends, no splices, and separated from other non-grounding wires. All because the protector will only be as effective as its earth ground. Which is why grounding even must not even be inside metallic conduit:
> if the ground conductor is running in steel conduit, its inductance
> will be greatly increased (by as much as 40X), because of the higher
> permeability of the steel!

And why single point earth ground is essential:
> Both NEC and good engineering practice require that all made electrodes
> (intentional earth connections) be bonded together, and this bond should
> be outside the building.

Critical to surge protection is the earthing. So that surges do not even cause munitions dump explosion, Ufer grounding is another well proven technique. Because protection is always about earthing - as those legendary application notes from Polyphaser demonstrate:
> Such an electrode is called a Ufer. ... Structural steel encased in concrete
>can made a part of the ground electrode system simply by thoroughly bonding
> all elements of the rebar together and bonding from there to the System
> Ground. See
> [Link: polyphaser.com]
> The Engineering Notes on this website are an excellent resource for
> understanding the engineering issues associated with grounding for
> lightning protection, especially for radio facilities.

How curious. WhiteVan Lifestyle simply confirms what I posted. He does not read or understand any of it? Clearly not. Explains his censured profanity, nasty attitude, personal attacks, and zero credibility. WhiteVan Lifestyles demonstrates why so many believe lies and myths recited by salesmen. And do not learn why one 'whole house' protector, properly earthed, is essential for surge protection. Or one can view those scary pictures - house fires because plug-in protectors are so often grossly undersized to increase profits.

What does Polyphaser discuss for surge protection. Always - as in there is no alternative - always dissipate surges in earth. Polyphaser's app notes are industry benchmarks defining earthing as so critical to surge protection.


Meanwhile, more lies. Somehow I am the owner of General Electric, Siemens, Cutler-Hammer, ABB, Intermatic, Leviton, Clipsal, Polyphaser, or any other responsible companies. Nonsense. WhiteVan Lifestyle must invent lies due to insufficient education. It explains his nasty personal attacks, censured profanity, and even his own citation confirms what I posted. I don't know if I should laugh or just be sad for him.

Moderator. Please censure posts from WhiteVan Lifestyle that are nothing more than personal attacks. But leave his citations that confirm how and why a 'whole house' protector is so essential for complete surge protection.

For 99.5% of the protection, one 'whole house' protector costs about $1 per protected appliance. Just another reason why that (and no plug-in) protectors are used in facilties that cannot suffer damage.

My bad! You are right and thousands of engineers including Bill Whitlock with Jensen whom I have a ton of respect for are wrong!

I don't have time to get into the 20,000 posts it will take to drill the facts into your thick skull. This has all been gone over on numerous forums where you spew your bulls**t, refuse to answer valid questions and twist anything that threatens your agenda.
Don't put words in my mouth and don't claim to know what I have or have not read or what I understand.

You are a retard! Troll elsewhere!

Okay. I get it. A good ground is essential. Westom, why do you have to ramble on in your posts.

In every facility that suffers surges, earth (not any protector) is where surges harmlessly dissipate. The educated understand why even Ben Franklin's lightning rods were so effective. Same thing makes a protector and lightning rod effective. Where energy harmlessly dissipates. Earth ground. Repeated because so many, who can only be told what to think, will post abuse to promote magic boxes. Quickly dismiss he who only posted insults and turned this discussion nasty.

His source recommended learning from Polyphaser. He cannot. Reality means he must apologize for being wrong and spiteful. Obviously he is not capable of reading or learning. Meanwhile, Polyphaser says in "Lightning Protector Location":
> First and foremost, there should be only one ground system.
> Second, the individual l/O protectors need to be co-located on the same electrical
> ground plane. This means establishing a single point ground system within the
> equipment building. … The single point ground system will keep all the I/O
> protectors at the same level with respect to each other.

His citation teaches you how to do this – with numbers. A short (low impedance) connection to single point earth ground. His citation even notes what compromises protection – ie sharp wire bends. That protector must always make a low impedance connection to earth ground.

Being unpleasant means he could not even comprehend his own citations. No problem. This post is for others who would learn rather than entertain the hurtful and uneducated. You, the reader, make that choice. Be informed. Have effective protection even from direct lightning strikes for about $1 per appliance. Or be scammed by lies from nasty posters.

Meanwhile, what professional say is not what an offensive poster insists. From AT&T's "Grounding and Bonding for Network Facilities":
> A ground, as defined in this document (and by the NEC) is: "A conducting
> connection, whether intentional or accidental, between an electrical
> circuit or equipment and the earth". A facility ground reference provides
> three primary functions:
> Dissipate lightning current
> Dissipate static discharge current
> Provide a voltage reference for CO equipment

To suffer 100 surges from each thunderstorm without damage, earthing is their most critical protection component. Nowhere in their document is any protector that would magically stop or absorb surges. They install protection – not a scam. And it costs tens, sometimes 100, times less money.

This post warns many who would otherwise be deceived by the duped. Provided was how surge protection was done even more than 100 years ago. Engineers say what is necessary to protect all household appliances. Earthing. Every wire inside every incoming cable (even underground cables) must make a low impedance connection to single point earth ground. Repeated insults do not change that reality. A ‘whole house’ protector connects even direct lightning strikes harmlessly to earth.

Science was that well understood that long ago. But the least educated will only repeat what advertising orders them to believe. Then post insults when reality exposes how easily they were conned.

It was always this simple. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Always. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

Hey westom, do you sleep sometimes?

Just curious because you wrote like 10 pages on this single thread that could have been resumed into 7-8 lines. You always repeat the same things. Get over it, bud. We all got that our appliances are protected for 1$ each, so get over it please.

OK, so take a $1 "surge protector" and hook it up to the TV in my apartment building. Then take it out and hook up my $90 APC (which is by NO MEANS a "top of the line" piece by any stretch) and watch the video noise go away. (My wife even asked what I did to the TV and she didn't know that I had changed anything.)

Oh wait, I already did that.

please come back to earth

Okay, Westom.

I get the grounding thing ad nauseam. If you were to recommend a surge protector on top of your whole house system what product would you choose?

whole house is great for the outside, but what about the surge from the inside Westom????????

If you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it surge I will......but for your daughters safety and your families safety...............

Solutions were posted previously:

Responsible companies identify where to look. But a protector is selected using specifications. First, it must have a dedicated wire for a low impedance (ie short)earthing connection. Second, 50,000 amps minimum. Effective protectors earth destructive surges including direct lightning strikes (typically 20,000 amps) and remain functional.

Selecting a protector is about life expectancy of protection over years or decades. Earthing is about how well protection performs during each surge.

Earthing discussed ad nauseam because many people must hear it maybe 30 times to finally grasp the point. My father so enjoyed advertising. Getting people to deny reality was fun and so easy. For many, once advertising is believed, then it takes earthquakes to get them to unlearn. It was amazing to watch. As many as 40% will blindly believe advertising without question. Then get angry and deny when reality is provided. And - even more interesting - deny being so easily manipulated.

First, if something inside is creating a surge, then the first thing destroyed is the surge creator. And that is the first thing quickly disposed as defective.

Second, if appliances are creating surges, then you are at the hardware store replacing the least robust appliances such as clock radios, dimmers, and kitchen GFCIs daily.

Third, if it creates a surge, you don't put a protector on everything else. You put it on the appliance that creates surges (see also 'six').

Fourth, a 'whole house' protector is so robust as to make lightning irrelevant. And makes tiny internal surges irrelevant. Unlike a plug-in protector, the 'whole house' protector addresses all types of surges.

Fifth, most internally generated surges are really only noise - tens of volts. A 120 volt protector ignores everything below 300 volts. If in doubt, read the let-through number on its box.

Sixth, if an appliance is generating surges, then the protector is degraded in weeks or months. You must replace those protectors many times a year. Which marketing people love to promote. And also applies to 'seven'.

Seventh, a most aggressive internally generated surge is from a typical UPS in battery backup mode. Electricity so 'dirty' as to be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. 'Dirt' made irrelevant by protection already inside all electronics.

Bottom line - those internally generated surges are fears invented by marketing people to increase sales.

Yes you figured out how to google....way to go sunshine.....and it looks like you believe everything you read on the internet