I'm converting from an RAV-2000 to a TSU-7500 that I plan to buy around June or so of this year.

The RAV-2000 has hard buttons for "power" and "standby." I completely understand this because most every device has power functions on its remote. One thing I noticed about the Prontos (including the TSU-7500) that does not make sense to me is that they all have "Channel +" and "Channel -" hard-labeled, hard-buttons, but no hard-labeled, power hard-buttons. Not every device I know has channel +/- buttons on the remote. Certainly, my DVD player does not. It does have a power button though.

It does make sense to me to have a hard cursor control. Every device that I have has a cursor control on its remote. Hard buttons for volume also make sense to me because the way I use the remote, I always control system volume through my receiver via the hard volume buttons.

Another thing that I do not see a usefullness for is "action pages." Though the concept could be used with any remote, my first exposure to the concept is from the ProntoProNG Edit software manual. I understand the concept, however, with my RAV-2000, I have, in general, only made tweaks to the initial configuration that I did for it since I bought it about five years ago. I find myself wondering why would anyone want to go through the trouble of making an action page and then linking to it from a layout page. It sounds like a lot of extra work to me.

If I were to make some suggestions to Philips as to useability updates for the next version of Prontos, my main suggestion would be leave off the hard-labels from the channel up and channel down buttons. Yes, I know that they can be used for virtually anything, but having them labeled for channel + & -, then using them for, say, power seems confusing especially if you have friends over often and they use your remote.

I'd also suggest that the idea of action pages for someone who does not often make changes to their layout pages is overkill and more difficult to use. (Here also, I understand one does not have to follow this methodology.)

Well, anyway, I guess that I'm just venting here (hopefully, I won't get flamed alive :-0), and somewhat spoiled by the RAV-2000. ;-) I do understand that not everyone will use their remote like I use mine. Anyone else think that the above mentioned "features" (or other "features") are somewhat off the mark?

You normally use a macro to turn on everything at the start of using a system, and another one to turn off everything at the end. Changing channels and volume are things you do all the time, which is why buttons are provided to make it easier. Turning power on and off usually is done once a day, so why dedicate a button for it? Also, if you are using a few different devices - Receiver, TV, Digital STB, Pay TV, DVD, CD then what gets turned off and on when you push the power button - everything, just the DVD? Finally, you would need two buttons - one for turning someything on and one for turning something off. If you see a need for a power hard button, then you don't understand how to set up a universal remote (or you only have one device to operate).

I have no idea what you mean by action pages. There is only one type of page, and it just called a page. If you can't fit all the buttons you need on one page, you spread them across one or more pages. Or you put less frequently used buttons on a separate page.

On my home page, I have buttons to
- turn everything on (turns on everything except DVD player)
- turn everything off
- watch Pay TV
- watch Digital TV
- watch DVD (also turns on DVD player)
etc

Each of the "Watch" buttons takes me to the first page of a device for that activity. When I am finished with the activity I press the Home button to return to the main menu. From there I can select another activity or turn everything off. I always use the receiver for sound, so the volume always operates the receiver's vlume.

Peter,

The Action Page to which Matthew is the IR Code Page containing buttons to which you link Graphical buttons.

Matthew,

The reason for these pages is that the folks who usually program these remotes like to keep a set of graphics that link to buttons in a hidden page. That way, when you switch out equipment (I upgraded Receiver, TV, DVD Changers all over the last few years), I don't have to go searching for all the places in my config where a code "might" be found. I have a single place to go to change out IR codes for different equipment.

Obviously, if you've had the same config for 5 years, you don't switch equipment that often. However, many of our systems grow, and grow, and grow. The used of the hidden IR Code page is invaluable when it comes time to switch out equipment.

This concept also benefits those who build custom configs for a living. They can keep a themed set of GUI devices laying around in different configs, merge em all together, then setup the IR codes. This is a "cookie cutter" approach that works well for many and saves lots of time.

If you want more information about the values of this technique, I encourage you to visit the Pronto Files Section and download Dale Crawford's Easy Theater (or Theatre) CCF. There's a word document there that explains how and why Dale uses this pattern. The reasons are basically the same as I described above, however, once you see the CCF and the complexity, hopefully, you'll grow to like the concept.

Sure, it's more work up front. However, if you switch out equipment on a regular basis, you'll grow to rely heavily on this CCF/PCF design pattern.

Lyndel

Lyndel,

Thanks for the explanation. No, I don't switch equipment much. I did, however, recently switch from DirecTV to DishNetwork, from an LD/DVD player to a DVD player, and from a Yamaha DSP to a Yamaha Receiver. All of them required different codes, and there's slim to no chance that I'll ever have any of those pieces of equpment in my system again.

That said, my remotes for both DirecTV and Dish make heavy use of channel macros since I have most of the stations for both programmed in. I thought those remotes would make good templates in that all one would have to do to base a remote on them for a different receiver is teach the numeric keypad the IR codes from the remote for the particular receiver. In some respects, I now see that I'm using the keypad as if it were an action page for the channel macros.

Well, Peter, I guess I asked for your comment about not knowing how to use a universal remote. Thanks! I needed that! :-O

Have a look at my RAV-2000 configuration file. The power buttons control the power for each individual piece of equipment. As I see it, one power button simply won't turn on the whole system - unless you program it that way. In addition, sometimes I watch DVD, sometimes DSS, Sometimes VCR. So, one power button is supposed to turn on all that and at the right time, too, which would require - since the pronto languages have no conditional branches (another thing I don't like) - bringing up a secondary page to ask what source you want to watch or the remote control being psychic? I see. I guess that I should also grow other sets of eyes and purchase one display for each video source so that I can watch them all at the same time. LOL.

As to channel flipping, the Dish 625 uses the cursor up and cursor down arrows to channel flip. I do not see a need to duplicate that functionality by adding separate channel +/- buttons. Since I made channel macros for almost all of the Dish channels, I don't use the channel + & - functionality for that remote either.

For me, Peter, the Watch tabs in my config file turn on and off, appropriately, DVD as source video, DSS as source video, VCR as source video, and also turn on my display, turn on my receiver, and set the receiver to the appropriate input. And since I sometimes will switch sources during one session, I also have a "switch" tab in which the macros switch from the source I'm watching (while shutting it off) to the one that I want to watch (while turning that one on) and select the appropriate input on the receiver. Works for me.

Well I am far from an expert but feel I have a good understanding of the pronto ng and have got it to do many things for my whole house setup. As for the power on function for your equipment a second page might not be needed if you just use the remote in one room. My setup is for any room in my house so my home page is pick a room than the next page is a device page for what devices are in that room. If yours are in one room your home page would just be a page to choose which activity you wanted to do say watch dvd or watch dss. That button would be a macro to turn on the tv,reciver and dvd player and then to jump to a control page for that device. On the control page I have an all off function for when I am done or on top I have icons for other devices I would like to switch to if not completley done. These icons are macros to shut off only the device I was using and switch tv to right input and turn on new device but leave the devices that still need to be used on also. Hopes this helps and maybe one of the experts might also have a better way to help you. I really like the prontos for how they can be customized for anybody's personal preferences. I have a couple of Tsu7000 models and really like them.

You are correct in saying that the pronto does not have conditional logic as say a Crestron or AMX, however, you can, with the use of macros, write conditions into specifically placed buttons. The difference is that YOU are the control processor instead of a seperate piece of eq. like the Crestron. For example: your main device page will have you choose which device you want an will turn on everything needed for that device. The properties for each device can be specific to that device, therefore, use the 4 firm buttons as device switching and power buttons. Like this: if you are watching DSS and want to go to DVD, don't go back to the main page (because you may be comming back from any of the devices and the remote doesn't know where you came from), instead, push the firm button labled DVD and it knows that the receiver and tv are already on and may only need to change inputs but will turn the DSS receiver off and the DVD on and then jump to the DVD device where the firm button macros are slightly altered because you will want to change the state of the equipment from the DVD page now. The "browse backward" feature will take you back to the previous page to "try again" if something didnot receive an IR code for whatever reason - this is only reliable if you have descrete codes for everything which is why most of us here at RC are always looking for them and are so upset at manufactures that don't accept them. Toggles are EVIL

Hope this gives you some ideas for better control with less button pushing and page jumping.

Rich

8's&Aces,

Thanks. This is a great idea for the "conversion" of the macro pages I have in my RAV-2000 for system power to an NG unit in the absence of conditional branching and variables that can be set/tested within the macro language.

I was wondering how I would do this, especially since you could use the touch screen to switch from "macro side" to "device side" in the RAV-2000 class devices without actually changing the page you were on in either section. Doh! You'd think that with an IQ in the mid 100's, I would have been able to figure that one out. :-O

So, I think I got this straight. To watch a device, go to it's page. The whole system powers on from a system power button (I'll probably use channel + and channel - since they are of little use to me) and sets the receiver input appropriately. Then, have a button to switch to the other sources (my significant other and I prefer to use the firm buttons for often used functionality like stop/pause/skip/ff/rw so I'll probably use soft buttons). When you do, it turns off the source you were watching, leaves all else on, turns on the source you want to watch, sets the appropriate receiver input, then jumps to the "want to watch" source device page. There would also be system power off buttons (channel - for me) on each source page, too, since some of my equipment (notably, my receiver) has separate power on/power off commands.

This would have worked well with the RAV-2000 class devices, too, and it would have negated the need to use the special "macro pages" for this type of functionality. Its no wonder that later gen prontos got rid of the separate macro page section.

Matthew, FYI, what you just described is an Activity-Based config. The antithesis of this is a Device-Based config where you just have screens of buttons, typically one device for each piece of equipment and you flip back and forth, turning things on/off, setting inputs, all manually.

Lyndel

Thanks. My RAV-2000 used to be that way. My girlfriend would not use it though, and I had to turn everything on for her. :-( Then, I programmed the "watch" tabs in my RAV-2000; however, I did end up liking it myself. ;-) (I actually intended to do that, however, I had trouble finding the time. The only reason that I made a full set of DirecTV icons is because I had to travel for business over the course of a week and brought my computer along.) I've consulted her (LOL) on this new method, and she likes the sound of not having to jump back and forth between the macro side of the RAV-2000 and the "Devices" side. She particularly felt that my "switch" tab was confusing.

Thanks again!