I have been observing this thread for the past few days and it just totally blew me away.

I myself am a chip designer. Rule 1 applies.
Before that I was a test engineer. Rule 2 applies.
Before and until now I am a customer. Rule 3 applies.

Rule 1. "If you design a piece of hardware but don't test it, or refuse to test it, then that piece of hardware is junk."

Rule 2. "If you test a piece of hardware but don't repair it, or refuse to repair it, then that piece of hardware is junk."

Rule 3. "If you sell a piece of hardware but don't back it up, or refuse to back it up, then that piece of hardware is junk."

All those who read all of my previous posts will know that I held the Pronto in my highest regards, that I think it is one of the best products that I ever bought.

I don't think I'm being too critical here. The Pronto is not a product that cannot be repaired. It is not the lowest common denominator, like a chip (IC), and believe it or not, even those can be repair.

When we buy something we buy the whole package. You do not buy something from some company that will or has gone out of business. It's just common sense. In the past all of us have been relying on this web site for support, even though we should be viewing Philips' site instead (Daniel Tonks, I have the highest respect for you, but it's true...). Now it seems we don't have hardware support either. Where do we go?

Look at what we have: (from Philips)
1. We have a great product.

Look at what we don't have: (from Philips)
1. We have no software support.
2. We have no hardware support.

Philips, is this how you want to enter the new millenium?. You got a great product here!. Wake up and read your motto "LET'S MAKE THINGS BETTER."

It would be interesting to see if Philips has a response to all of this -- I hope it wakes a few people up to a potential problem that probably hasn't been considered yet. Still, I'm happy to do what I can to help Pronto owners (such as run this web site).

There's an update over on ProntoEdit.com on this subject. Somebody from Philips will be calling Joe to sort things out...

Hopefully Joe will let us know of the outcome...I hate the suspense! :-)

You think the suspense is tough on you... ;-)

I just hope they really call. Over the last week, I have had three phone calls where someone from Philips was going to call me right back. So far, I have not gotten a single return phone call. I have also sent emails on two different subjects. They have not responded to those either.

Incidentally, some of the calls were trying to get codes for my receiver. It has a 455 mHz remote & Pronto cannot learn the codes but it can send them if I can get the hex codes.

Joe

Since noone was sure of warranty, here is a copy
of the Pronto warranty that came with my unit:
PRONTO LCD REMOTE CONTROL
One Year Exchange
This product must be shipped in for replacement.

WHO IS COVERED?
You must have proof of purchase to exchange the product A sales
receipt or other document shanrhg that you purchased the product
is considered proof of purchase Attach it to this warranty and keep
both nearby.

WHAT IS COVERED?
Warranty coverage begins the day you buy your product. for
one year thereafter, a defective or inoperative product will be
replaced with a new, renewed, or comparable product at no
charge to you. A replacement product is covered only for the
original warranty period. When the warranty on the original
product expires, the warranty on the replacement product also
expires.

WHAT IS EXCLUDED?
Your warranty does not cover:

* labor charges for installation or setup of the product, adjust-
ment of customer controls on the product, and installation
or repair of antenna systems outside of the product.
* product repair and/or part replacement because of misuse,
accident, unauthorized repair, or other cause not within the
control of Philips Consumer Electronics.
* reception problems caused by signal conditions or cable or
antenna systems outside the unit.
* a product that requires modification or adaptation to enable
it to operate in any country other than the country for
which it was designed, manufactured, approved and/or
authorized, or repair of products damaged by these modifica-
tions.
* incidental or consequential damages resulting from the prod-
uct. (Some states do not allow the exclusion of incidental or
consequential damages, so the above exclusion may not
apply to you. This includes, but is not limited to, prerecord-
ed material, whether copyrighted or not copyrighted.)

WHERE IS EXCHANGE AVAILABLE?
You may exchange the product in all countries where the prod-
uct is officially distributed by Philips Consumer Electronics.
In countries where Philips Consumer Electronics does not distrib-
ute the product, the local Philips service organization will
attempt to provide a replacement product (although there may
be a delay if the appropriate product is not readily available).

BEFORE REQUESTING EXCHANGE...
Please check your owner's manual before requesting an
exchange. Adjustments of the controls discussed there
may save you a trip.

TO GET WARRANTY SERVICE IN U.S.A.,
PUERTO RICO, OR U.S. VIRGIN ISLANDS...
If the product requires repair during the warranty period, contact
the Philips Consumer Care Center at 1-888-486-6272 to verify the
need for service and to initiate the repair process. If service is
required, arrangements will be made to ship a replacement unit.
Upon receiving the replacement unit. return the original product
needing service to Philips in the packaging provided with the
replacement unit. If the original product is not returned within 14
days of shipment of the replacement or exchange product the cus-
tomer will be billed the retail price of the product. Prior to ship·
ping a replacement unit arrangements (e.g., credit card number)
must be made for payment of the replacement product in the event
that the product needing service is not returned.

EXCHANGING A PRODUCT IN CANADA...
Please contact Philips at:
1-800-661-6162 (French Speaking)
1-800-363-7278 (English Speaking)

(In Canada, this warranty is given in lieu of all other warranties.
No other warranties are expressed or implied, including any
implied warranties of merchantability or fitness for a particular
purpose. Philips is not liable under any circumstances for any
direct, indirect, special, incidental or consequential damages,
howsoever incurred. even if notified of the possibility of such
damages.)

REMEMBER..
Please record below the model and serial numbers found on
the product. Also, please fill out and mail your warranty regis-
tration card promptly. It will be easier for us to notify you if
necessary.

MODEL# ________________

SERIAL# ________________

Philips Consumer Care Center 1-888-486-6272

Where did you find the warranty? Was it on a separate piece of paper in the box? I couldn't find anything like that with mine.


Thanks

Joe

Joe
Yes you are correct, this was on a extra sheet of
paperin the box. Also on a seperate sheet was the information on "ProntoEdit" and where to download it. The manual and warranty registration card DO NOT have any information on what the Philips warranty covers!

What i did not scan, from the "limited Warranty"
paper is the bottom line:
Philips Service Solutions Group, P.O. box 555
Jefferson City, Tennessee 37760, (423) 475-8869
Document# MAC6365/EL6431E002/11-98

I hope you can get this issue resolved, as I am also quite amazed that ANYONE would call any item costing over $300 "disposable".

I know the ProntoEdit information was *not* included with the remote before the software was announced/available. In fact, the first ones came with the manual as the only documentation in the box... which doesn't specifically mention warranty terms any where.

Thanks for the information. I had the sheet about ProntoEdit, but I didn't get the warranty sheet.

Perhaps a brief chronology will help explain my disappointment with Philips and why I'm not comfortable until I actually do get a call from Philips.

Thursday 5/6 - I got my Pronto. I discovered that it cannot learn the codes of the receiver I bought it for (Kenwood KR-V990D). I called Philips. A nice man said someone would call me right back. No one ever did.

Friday 5/7 - I searched prontoedit.com and remote central for codes for my receiver. There were none. Further digging on usenet revealed that my receiver's remote uses 455kHz carrier. Evidently Pronto cannot learn 455kHz codes, but can send them if it has the correct hex codes. I emailed Philips' service department with this additional information and asked them to let me know how I could get the codes that will allow me to use the Pronto. They have not replied.

Sunday 5/9 - Someone dropped my remote and nicked the screen.

Monday 5/10 - I called Philips. They told me that they would not repair it for a fee, nor would they repair it under warranty. They told me to go buy another unit. Thinking that this could not possibly be the case and that they must hve misunderstood my request, I asked the friend who dropped it to call them. He got the same response. I emailed their support group and asked if this was correct. They have not responded.

Wednesday 5/12 - I called Philips again, determined to find someone who could help me. I talked to three people. The last was Kerwin who said he needed to check something and would call back "in a few minutes." He never called back.

Thursday 5/13 - I called the number that Claude posted. A nice man said of course they should allow me to pay to exchange my Pronto for a reconditioned one (which was my original request). He said someone would call back to arrange that. So far, no one has. Also on Thursday, Jack at prontoedit.com posted a response that someone from Philips would be contacting me in 5-7 days. I sincerely and greatly appreciate Jack's efforts! He has been the most helpful person I have encountered through all these troubles and I didn't even buy it from him. I have just heard "we'll call right back" so many times from Philips that I hope they are not giving him the same line they have been giving me. I won't feel secure about this until they actually follow through on one of these promised phone calls.

So far, they have been consistent in their pattern of failing to follow through on any promised calls.

So here I am with a remote that will not do what I bought it to do. After having it for all of three days it was damaged in a fall. Philips says that dropping a remote control is considered abuse and voids the warranty. To me, that is akin to a car company saying that if you take your car out of the garage they consider that abuse and the warranty is voided. Remote controls get dropped. That is part of their environment. Regardless, I am willing to pay for the repair and can't even get that accomplished.

So I've spent well over $300 on a remote the will not control my receiver, got nicked and cannot be repaired. I have not gotten much value for my money, and I have gotten absolutly no help from Philips.

Had I known this information up front, I would have never spent the money. They have taken my money and refuse to provide help, service, or information. That doesn't seem fair.

Joe

Well, I have a little bit of news. Jack at Remote central passed information of my problem to someone at Philips. I got email from someone high up at Philips yesterday. He said he'd like to speak to me about the problem, but that he will be out of the office until a week from Monday (5/24). So I guess the suspense will continue for a while, but at least there is some progress.

Joe

Joe,

I suspect that you were finally put in contact with a Mr. Clark French from Philips, the man who made it happen for me. If I am correct, You are in good hands.

Let me know how it goes. (free exchange or what.)

Claude H.

Joe,
The problem with your damaged unit will get settled and I can confirm that the "out of the office" line is legitimate. As to the 455khz codes, this may remain "in process" for a period of time as the "hex creation" for these codes will be handled by another group altogether.
Philips (and every other learning remote mfr) are aware of codes and in the case of Pronto, at least have the ability to create a fix, albeit perhaps not as timely as you would like.
One of the best things you can do is to contact Kenwood and ask them for the technical spec for the codes as this should provide enough data to enter the hex and generate the codes. I also suggest reviewing Gordin's document on the subject and talking with Kenwood tech support using the terms outlined (lead in, frequency, data, lead out, etc) as this will substantiate that you're looking seriously for a solution and that once the solution is obtained it will be available for all users.
Trying to help as much as I can.

Jack

Phillips should emulate what other large consumer electronics manufacturers do with products that are not economically feasible to repair.
Typically, the product could be replaced by the manufacturer for something like 60% of the MSRP if a damaged/out of warrantee remote is traded in.
The real problem for Joe is not that he is being asked to pay money for the accidental drop, it is that he is being asked to give a retailer another sale (with the associated profit). This makes painful accidents doubly painful.

My son had a nasty accident with a Sony playstation, Sony replaced it for about 70% of retail.

Joe, Hang In There It Seems Like You Got The Ball Rolling. As For Those 455 Khz Codes, I'm Not Sure, But When I Was Training The Codes For My Uniden 5500 C-Band Satellite remote, The Codes Would Not Take At All. I Used the Pronto Edit Software and Learned Each Command Several Times, Like 40 Or More, Then Went Through The List Testing Each One. It Was A Long Drawn Out Process And Sometimes I Had To Repeat That For The Same Key A Few Times But It Did eventually learn THe Codes. I'm Not Saying I Had The Very Same Problem, because I Never Went that Far To Find Out the frequency That My Remote Was On. I Just Kept Trying The Power Key First and I Found That It Would Learn, Just Not Easily. I also Started From A Certain Distance And Moved The Remote A Little Closer each Time I Trained It, Then Went Through The List Testing Each one. Remember, Some Keys Were Harder Than Others And Took Longer. I Spent The Evening Just Learning A Few Codes. Its Worth A Try.

Thanks, Aaron Brewster

Hi Joe
I am not a pronto user, but I do plan to buy another remote other then my RC2000II. I do visit this site often hoping that I can get some information that will help me to make a sound decision. I started to follow your situation with Philip, and suddenly the process stoped. Did Philip replace or repair your remote? I am curious to know for my own good.