Hey, HiFiGuy -

Have hope. All the arguements I've heard for why Philips wouldn't develop a color LCD Pronto have been put forth by others before when applied to Laptops, Palmtops, and Palm PC's. But look what happened.

History repeats itself. The power considerations are nominal, because the device is home-based, and easily recharged, or batteries replaced. Costly? Yes, but there's a market for everything... even a $300 touch screen remote... and prices on technology come down every day. I don't think you'll have as long to wait as you think.

As to the form factor, the color screen will NOT add any noticable size to it. Check out Philips' Nino 400 series for the screen that they'd likely use, and compare it to their 300 series. You'll see what I mean.

Agree on the "turnkey" approach to a "simple" or "visitor" configuration. I'll be uploading my CCF in a few days after I get a few kinks worked out. I use the "common functions" concept you illustrate, where I use a single panel of most frequently used commands, positioned as the first panel in any device. I then use the 'tab' concept to jump between activities (watch TV, watch DVD, etc.) to do the source switching, and that jumps to that main panel for each device I mentioned. Any other keys can be accessed from a submenu I have off my home page.

Interesting that the "generic configurations" have been tried before, although I'm not familiar with the unit in question. Nice to know that someone tried it, at least.

Oh, and by the way... I want to echo Fred's comments. This community is both open and dynamic. I'm pleased to be involved on a board whose members are intelligent enough to express their opinions and defend their concepts while respecting others, and listening for whatever new ideas might come from someone else.

Dan - keep up the good work!

My solution to the tactile feedback problem with the Pronto is twofold.

First, use a very consistent layout so that the buttons are in the same place on all of the major screens. That allows you to "learn" the approximate location of each button. It also helps if you keep the button count to a minimum on the most frequently used screens.

Second, use a screen protector to cover your pronto screen. Several workable ideas have been posted here for screen protectors. Then, add small tactile feedback bumps to a few key locations on your screen protector (dead center and a star pattern around the dead center). This can be done with Elmer's glue or whatever you have handy.

If you match up your major buttons to the tactile bumps, you can operate the essential functions of your pronto without looking. This approach is used on most keyboards for designating the F and J keys. It is also used on a lot of car radios with bunches of tiny buttons.

I haven't actually implemented this idea, but it seems workable. I'd like to hear from anyone that has actually tried it.

Mark

Mark:

I think that's an excellent concept. My own CCF uses consistent like-button locations whenever possible, so this idea would probably both help protect my Pronto AND make it easier to use. To add the bumps, I would probably align the correct spot on the back of the screen protector over a round depression (such as the air vent holes on the top of my external modem). Then, I'd use a stylus with a rounded tip (such as an empty ballpoint pen) and press the plastic into the hole about two millimeters. The resulting bump in the plastic shouldn't affect use of the screen.

This concept could in fact be considered while designing your CCF, making the whole CCF much easier to learn, even for the new user.

In fact, I think this idea is SO good that Philips should implement something like this by including several different versions of "pre-pimpled" screen protectors with the Pronto.

Great idea, Mark! I'm going to order some screen protectors and give this idea a try with my CCF.

Dale Crawford

Well, I have to agree with the latest additions to this thread. This bumpy screen protector is quite interesting. Is technology these days up to make this electronically? I mean, maybe the guys from MIT have developed something like this (I'm still shocked by the electronic ink on electronic paper invention!).

By the way, I think I said good bye too early. The guy I was supposed to have sold my Pronto has read this thread and now he's thinking it over. I guess I should have posted my thoughts AFTER having the money in the pocket... :-( (I invited him to read this anyway, I didn't want to cheat).

Pablo

Check out this site for remotes...

[Link: k40.net]

Guys,

There is a lot of very constructive comments here. I do hope that someone with some power in Phillips does read this board.

I was actually amazed that the Pronto did not contain a CD with the editing software and some samples of different CCF styles.

I was then even more amazed that Philips only provide IR codes for their own stuff. Over here in the UK, very little kit sold is Philips, and the boys like Sony and Panasonic control the market for TV's / Amps / VCR's, etc...

-=-=-=-

I also agree that this is far too hard to program for the average user. I personally have grown to love it after a couple of days playing around, however I did sit down and wonder where to start.

The comment of "I don't know what my Mum would do with this" is very true. On the other hand if you program it for her then she'd find it a damn site easier to use than 8 individual remotes.

Two hands..? Doesn't seem to bother me. I just use the 5 at the right once I've turned everything on, and I don't mind having to look at the screen when I need to select something as I've never found a remote yet that does more than one device that I can use blindfold (for any more than the few primary buttons).

The Silver casing in Style and colour is Georgous.

In short, I love it. But I can see why some might not.

Once I get my new Amplified and DVD player then I will post my finished CCF.


Andy

I can't tell you how relived I am to have found this thread (from a Google search). I thought I was alone in finding the Pronto grindingly difficult to use. We usually watch TV at night, before going to sleep, and our array of devices is not large - we have a DVD, a VCR, a TiVo and a TV. That's it. And, as limited as it is, I find myself using the TiVo remote for everything but the DVD player.

I spent about three weeks designing my ccf, and while I can't call myself a programmer, I have written business applications in COBOL and dBase, so I have an idea of what an algorithm is. I was nothing but frustrated by what I consider to be the brain-damaged OS on this deal.

But the main thing is, I just find that I don't use it. It works fine, but it's a pain. I can't use it in the charger, because it's on my nightstand and I'd have to get out of bed to use it that way = that's not why one buys a remote. (By the way, does anyone else find that it slips off the stand awfully easily?) And if I take it into my hands to use it I find it awkwardly shaped, hard to see without the backlight, and very easy to make a mistake with. I may not have given up so fast if I had found this forum sooner after purchase, but my Pronto is going up on eBay.

I just wanted to chime in on a few points in this thread. First off - Peter, that TiVo remote is hard to beat! It's easily the best freebie remote I've ever gotten. I use mine consistently for watching TV, as it can power the TV on/off, adjust volume and mute on my receiver, and provide all my TiVo functionality. The peanut shape fits nicely in either hand as well..

To get back to the Pronto. I've always thought that the bottom left/right buttons should be replaced with a directional pad and enter key. It seems that more and more devices have these. TiVo, DVD Players, DSS Systems, etc. This would give us 3 more hard buttons, and easily eliminate half the real estate of my screens. It's also be a good balance between 'tactile feedback' and customization. I really don't understand why this hasn't been done before. Makes for some nice UI possibilities too with Scroll menus, etc..

One of my friends was looking for an universal remote control some time ago and I directed him to come to www.remotecentral.com and check out Pronto/RC5000. 2 days after, he told me he wouldn't buy a Pronto. Reason? He said he would spend too much time customize the remote rather than actually using it.

It's true, in my case I have spent more than 100 hours since I bought the remote to make it the way I want it. But I don't think I have spent more than 5 hours in total using it yet. But I still love adding buttons, changing graphics, it's fun after all :)

What a fantastic thread !

I've been suffering from headaches from the wife ever since I bought my Yamaha AV amp, Sony DVD, Panasonic Wide Screen TV and the Sky Digital Satellite receiver. Me nor the wife can believe that all the remotes will only perform only some of the functions of the other components...so it was off on the track of a headache cure and a replacement learning remote.

The Pronto or Marantz seemed to be the one, but I too was worried about the touch screen tactile issue as I have learned alot of the remote commands, particularly those coloured buttons for text (So how do you do those on a Pronto (RED, YELLOW, GREEN, BLUE - yuk !).

I spent about two days trying out OmniRemote on my Palm III, it would just about have done the job until I changed chairs and the IR wouldn't reach any more! Otherwise, I'd hane gone and bought a Palm V just for the job (The III is used at work), we'd then have a proper phone list, home calendar and loads of extra 'bolt ons' as well.

Anyway, as for this thread and the whole tactile thing, take a look at the Ericson R380 PDA phone, the flip over cover gives you the buttons while leaving you a touch screen underneath.

Anyone at Phillips responsible for product development should take a look at this forum, but if they really don't care, the competition should take note instead and come back with the best of all worlds. This is free product feedback and I'd say better than any that they'd get from product registration questionaires !

By the way the Mark Barbieri's pips on the screen is inspired you should have patented that one first. Maybe with some way of making < > ^ and V you would even have the cursor keys sorted!

Thanks to everyone, I reckon I will be buying a Marantz out of my bonus along with some of those screen protectors and a ball point pen.That was the final stumbling block sorted for me !

Alan

For the most part I agree, the touch screen is not usefull for navigating around in the DSS or RePlay type guide grids. What's most disappointing is the TSU 2000, not being much of an upgrade. Phillips blew it. The 2000 should have been a redesigned case with more hard keys.

The programming environment though, I feel is completey intuitive. I am a programmer of many languages since 1981. It's more than enough for the average programmer to deal with. The end user though I would guess could be overwhelmed.

I almost bought a MX 1000. But after reading about all of the software glitches, I didn't want to wait a year while they get around to fixing them, as the 1000 was delayed already by a year, you would think they had enough time to get it right already.

The screen is clearly not very good at 'touch' operations. I sometimes find myself pressing a button 5 or 6 times before I get a response, and then other times it works on the first shot. I own a 1000 & 2000 models and both screens have the same responses.

We need more stiff competition and lower prices. It's incredible to think that we are paying > $250 bucks for a remote.

I totally agree about the lack of cursor keys. This is the one thing I really miss and the reason I sometimes dig out the DVD remote control if I'm going to be playing with menus and special features a lot...

I still think the Pronto is the best consumer remote, though... All the others have silly limits on the number of buttons or devices. I'd be scared of running out.

Most importantly, I couldn't control my CD jukebox with anything but the Pronto. So Pronto it is!

here is a concept:

Considering the lack of support from Philips for Pronto edit and how lousy the s/w is. Is there a few talented s/w engineers out there that would be willing to write a new and user friendly software package for the Pronto. I would assist in funding the project, documentation etc. I would like to talk offline about the project, the timeframe, the costs, legal etc and the splitting of profits. Come on everybody with some type of entrepreneural spirit and the desire to put out a better product than Philips has presently

To me the pronto is worth the money just for the CD Changer qualitys. and it's even eaiser to make a CCF Thanks to Leo and his Super-nudelist.

Well well well....Long thread but here is my two cents worth. The overall impression is tactile over touch..This is purely a personal choice, I prefer touch. As far as programming I am a tinkerer and enjoy fiddling with screens and buttons etc..Big picture, I think ProntoEdit is sorely in need of an update, add some common windows feature/functionality such as drag and drop, mulitple projects open, copy paste etc and the programming environment would be a much happier time with less complaints. It has been a year since 1.05 was released...time for an updating.

---I use the pronto to control home theater with out issue, however, interestingly my wife and kids still search for the original remotes --- they are button people....