Anthony,
Good point, discrete IR codes only benefit Pronto owners, so I guess if Philips / Marantz want their remote products to be a complete success they should work with TOAD makers to create and provide discretes.

Discrete IR codes do not benefit JUST Pronto owners. They are a must for anyone with a remote that is capable of macros. Macros will not work reliably without discretes.
Perhaps between us and the makers of these remotes lobbying the AV press and manufacturers we may someday get to a point where discrete codes will no longer be an issue.

TomW.

This message was edited by TmW on 11/03/01 09:11.29.

It's interesting to read the shared frustration on this thread. What everyone should realize is that this is not a "new" problem. I have been this business for 10 years, and I can remember when the term "discrete code" was virtually unknown. Quite frankly that is why products such as AMX/Crestron and the Niles Intellicontroller were such outstanding control solutions for us. I hope what everyone can appreciate is that things are much better now, and are getting better every product cycle.
Ricky P, your example is a very good one that I am talking about. Plasma TV's have always been really designed for commercial use and/or as primarily a computer monitor. They are still trying to streamline integrating these displays for use with NTSC video, let alone worrying about "discrete codes".
As much as I love Pronto/ProntoPro's as a solution, we have to realize that there are inherited issues. Even with a $30,000 TV. Just remeber, a BMW 750 still needs its oil changed, just like a Ford Escort.
Breathe, and make use of the luxuries we do have. Trust me, it could be a whole lot more difficult.


ELdon

Hi Tom W,
Just wondering what other remotes allow you to copy and paste discrete IR codes (codes that are not transmitted via a button push)?

dvpa59,
Ooopsy - I s'pose you're right.
I was thinking strictly in terms of macros and I figured that the other remotes that have macro capability shared this problem.
Wasn't thinking that there also has to be some way to get them into the remote.

TomW.

The most ironic part is that Philips and Marantz are *also* makers of TOAD products.

Tony Golden

Just to point out one componant that meets virtually ALL of the discrete requirements; not a Philips/Marantz product though: the Sony TA-E9000ES preamp. Disrete on and off commands, as well as discretes for all inputs and almost all soundfields (except for those provided by a recent firmware upgrade), AND discrete codes for any and all soundfield PARAMETERS (eg distance, balance, individual speaker volume, etc). Hopefully other manufacturers will take the hint....

I am a software engineer and use a remote in the product I'm working on. This is how we implement power buttons. We use ONE power IR code and the software "stores" its current state and reacts based on its current state. So if a power IR command is recieved and the system is on is simply shuts down the system. And if the system is off then it wakes up the system. Note: a TV is never without power until the plug is removed from the wall. It just draws enough power so it can turn on from a button press or remote command. So a lot of manufactures probably don't have descrete IR codes becuase of cost reasons. It is cheaper to have one power button then and on and off button. And companies are all about squeezing every penny out of a design. And having descrete codes that simple toggle between the two on one button will not work becuase a lot of people would return the product or remote saying it doesn't work all the time even though it really does work as intended. I'm all for descrete codes myself. And its not diffacult to include them in any product. Actually its mostly likely just software change anyway. Take complanies an extra 30 mins to add them and test them out. But in my experience most companies will consider those who want them to be the minority and not make the changes.

Well I hope Marantz listens, and I'll bring up descrete codes with the company I work with when they are at the office next time. I work with Philips remotes and they own Marantz as I'm sure you all know. Maybe I can dig up some descrete codes if they exists but I really doubt they do :-( And I do software for the automotive market, DVD systems to be exact. To bad I don't get to play with the pronto remotes... just gonna have to buy my own I guess..

The type of code he was talking about is called a "revolving code".
When a manufacturer wants to make discrete codes available, they alternate codes with each button press.
An example would be the Mitsubishi HD400 SD/HD button. Press 1 transmits the SD code, press 2 transmits the HD code. In this example, it was cheaper for the manufacturer to use a revolving code button.
[I've never seen a revolving mute button, however]

This message was edited by rdoc on 11/04/01 19:22.07.

rdoc: that is why I think he is mistaking a revolving code for a toggle code

dpva59, TomW: A few one for all have the discrete codes in their IR library, so cut and paste is not the only solution. But like Tom said, you do not care about discretes until you start programming complex macros.

Tony Golden: like most large companies I am sure the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. It is easier to say they should not have TOADS since they have the Pronto, but a lot of the equipment engineers might be totally ignorant of the Pronto.

howie777: Philips used to have a controlling share in Marantz, but they sold part of it, since they wanted to own less then 50%

I have been programming the RC5000/Pronto remotes for a few years and working with Marantz equipment as well.

After I worked on last years plasma screens, I was quite happy with the discrete codes they had. NOW, with the new 42,50 and 61 (only have put in 42 and 61 so far) I have to use a slow macro, which is prone to problems both from the IR remote eye problems we've run into, and customers who just never hold the remote still for the required time! (Can't wait for IR/RF remotes)

I anchor the macro for each source, with the DVD button, and then pause and then select the video input. If you don't, then it toggles the various inputs for that source. What a pain in the ass!

I have last years model of the 42 at home and am glad that it has discrete codes. Otherwise, I'd be divorced by now. It was hard enough sliding the plasma in, let alone the remote control. When she asked for a "regular" remote, I handed her 4 of them. She now uses the RC5000 all the time

lewishipkins: I hate it when you lose discretes. At work we had some old NEC Projectors, on the remote they had a button for each input. Last year they decided to install new Projectors in each of the conference rooms, and they decided on NECs. These new NECs did not have discretes. The macro to change input to S-video is 15 steps long. The Epson 7250 used to have distinct buttons for the different inputs, but its replacement only has a computer and a video button, I have not looked at one yet, but I sure hope the old codes work on the new projector.

Keep the info comming. I am having a meeting with Marantz people on Wed the 14th. Anyone know of a A/V company that has discret codes for all there products.

I'm sorry if I missed somebody already posting this. Companies do not have to make new remotes to handle discrete codes or worry about confusing clients. The solution like Sony has adopted is to make these discrete codes available to the pros and not the public.

Last chance for Marantz questions. Will meet with them on Wed the 14th.