I work for a custom install company that sells and programs both the Marantz and Philips remotes. This is incredible that both these companies do not support there product lines with discrete codes. I am fighting with Marantz about there Plasma line over a discrete code for video 1 input. You would think that at $29,500.00 Retail for a 61" display you could ask for and get discrete codes for me to totally automate the customers RC5000i remote, but no they have to call Japan and see if they are available. This Sucks!!!!!!!

Just looked at discrete codes here for Marantz & Philips and guess what? No Philips and 2 for Marantz. This industry had better WAKE UP!

Just venting, Thanks

Rick: I agree with you," This industry had better WAKE UP!" at least as far as discrete go. But, no one can make up discrete codes (just because you ask them), they have to be part of the equipment (that is why the guy has to look for them). I find you got a good response from Marantz, most manufacturers would have told you to f. off (some even that they will pursue legal actions).

Those commands are probably available thru the serial control port of the Marantz plasma.

Celadon makes a nice piece that converts any IR command to a predetermined serial string.

We use these devices a lot on products that are TOADS, but have a serial port.

You may want to check this link below:

[Link: celadon.com]

Discretes, if available, are quite spotty.

Ricky,
Why not just use a Xantech Gatekeep-IR? If your client can afford a $30K TV, they can certainly afford a few hundred dollars of hardware to make their system foolproof.

Ricky,
I agree with you wholeheartedly about the industry waking up. It is UNBELIEVABLE that at least the companies that manufacture this remote cannot get their acts together regarding discrete codes. It amazes me that ALL manufacturers are unable to think far enough ahead to include discrete codes for all their devices. The cost to do so would I presume be minimal. I for one will partly base my future purchasing decisions on the availability of discrete codes for the device in question. (Yup, gonna walk into the showroom, Pronto in hand) AV hardware people... are you listening? I'm certain I'm not the only one who feels this way. Who knows how much this lack of foresight is costing you in market share.

Manufacturers really won't pay attention until the mainstream press pays attention. You all would do more good by writing to consumer reports, stereophile, Home Theater etc. The reviewers there don't pay any attention to these qualities!

Actually, given the size of the companies and the diversity of their offerings (including the many independent factories who sell components on contract to them), I think many companies deserve to be singled out for praise.

Only a few years ago, Marantz and Sony were the only ones manufacturing ANY components with discrete codes.
Today, many other manufacturers are beginning to see the light.

However, they are SO MUCH more responsive, than the press, who obviously are COMPLETELY satisfied with the way things operate. At least Sony, B & K, Marantz, Loewe, RCA, Proscan, Mitsubishi, Runco, Nakamichi, Yamaha and Krell make a LOT of their components with discrete codes and/or anchored solutions for one touch macros.

I remember a few years ago, wearing a PR hat for an Automation System Manufacturer, going to a famous home theater guru's house and installing a system capable of one touch macros with a pile of TOADS.

While I was preparing to program, I asked his wife what she liked to do with the home theater. She told me and I made sure that the automation system not only did what he wanted, but what she wanted too (one touch to her common activities, VCR and TV; plus simple screens to control those two devices).

A month later, I called to see how things were going and the guru admitted disconnecting the system. He literally felt, "that he wasn't in control of the system anymore." After I pressed for the problem, he admitted that he liked feeling like he was the only one capable of operating the system and that the automation system belittled his abilities.

This attitude needs to be stomped out in the professional audio/video press. You all need to start actively writing the press about their ignorance of automation issues like discrete codes.

Everyone should write their favorite and not so favorite magazines about this problem.

Believe me, if Consumer Reports were to give points for discrete codes in their reviews, every single manufacturer would very quickly have discrete codes.

Home Theater Magazine, Stereo Review, Sound & Vision, Audio/Video Interiors and other A/V review magazines, ARE YOU LISTENING?

I believe control integration should be one category that should be a part of every review, on every piece of equipment reviewed.

Sort of something like the following:

Product under review: MARANTZ SR-18 receiver

DISCRETE IR POWER ON/OFF: yes

DISCRETE IR INPUT SELECTION: yes

DISCRETE IR SOUNDFIELD SELECTION: yes

OVERALL CONTROL INTEGRATION: Excellent

Just my take on it,

Dave

This message was edited by Dave Blaker on 10/31/01 20:51.32.

But how is a reviewer going to know (in the short time s/he has to review a product) that it has discrete codes. Usually (especially for on/off) looking at the remote won't tell you.

[Maybe one day, products will come with a CD which contains a CCF with every code and pretty graphics and buttons to make the Pronto Device look just like the remote.]

One thought is, if the manufacturer knows their product will be reviewed for that category, they will supply the reviewer with that knowledge, and the codes for the reviewer to test the product with.

If they are not provided, one can only assume they don't exist

Just a thought.

Dave

This message was edited by Dave Blaker on 10/31/01 21:11.31.

Working out whether a product has a set of discrete codes or not is fairly easy.

In the case of separate On/Off buttons - the On button should leave the product on if it already on.

In the case of a toggle On/Off button - every second press of the button should transmit the On code. So, you press the On/Off button once and the unit comes on; You go out of the room and press it again (thus insuring that there's no way the unit could have picked up the signal); You come back into the room and press it again and, if it's a discrete On, the unit should remain on. (This is the way mute works with my TV).

Andy.

This message was edited by akilgore on 11/01/01 04:30.58.

Wow! Thanks for all the response. Right after I made this post I recived a phone call from my Marantz rep firm and he asked if he could come by in 2 weeks and bring someone from Marantz Corp office with him to discuss my issues. I of course said yes and will be expecting him around the 14th. I will make a deal with you guys and gals. Tell me about all your grips and problems about Marantz products and I'll see if I can get him to listen to me and you. Load down this thread and I will print it out for him to read.

Thanks for the help!!
Ricky P.

Nearly every remote has a toggle button for on/off. Remotes very rarely have separate on/off buttons (which would be discrete on/off codes). A toggle button NEVER transmits discrete on/off codes alternately as you suggest.

To get such discrete codes, if they exist, you have to ask the manufacturer or experiment.


That's a very strange way to implement mute. I would be very surprised if that was at all common.

The mute button on my TV remote (which is made to appear as a toggle) alternates between 2 different IR codes each time it is pressed (I have learnt the IR codes and viewed them in ProntoEdit and they are different). So this mute button DOES transmit discrete on/off codes alternately.


I wasn't suggesting that this was a method of finding out what the discrete codes were. I was simply saying that this is a way to quicky detect whether the original remote was transmitting discrete codes. (After all, that is how I discovered the discrete Mute On/Off for my TV).

This message was edited by akilgore on 11/01/01 18:34.58.

akilgore:
1) Are you sure you are talking about discrete codes, and not a toggle bit on the IR (the way you describe the functionality, it sounds more like the latter)
2) assuming it is sending discrete, the truth is for most other manufacturers it does not work that way. the way it works is the remote itself only knows "power" while the equipment knows "power", "on", "off", you can easily get the code for power (from the remote) but you have to search for on, and off, or someone needs to tell them to you.


The problem is not one fold, but two fold. like John said:

The Pronto, HK.... created a middle ground between the low end remotes and the high end controllers. High end controllers (like Crestron, AMX....) use RS-232 to control the equipment. They do not need discrete IR codes, so manufacturers assume that either you use the original remote or RS-232 so they add discrete serial codes and don't care for discrete IR codes.

so what I am trying to say, is yes the low end does not care for discrete IR codes, but the high end does not care either. So in the middle where we stand there is no solution and no one else cares.