This may be acedemic to some of you techies but OFA informed me that:

Devises without setup codes must be learned.

Learned functions cannot be included in Macros.

Hence, No all system off/on for learned devices.

My suspect divice is a dishplayer (Echostar)

Any insight is appreciated.

Wayne

Ps. Dave B. put this one in your pipe and smoke it. wh

Learned functions CAN be used in macros. When I ran out of macro/advance code/remap memory, I deleted my Yamaha receiver separate on and off advanced codes (among others) and "learned" them instead to the remote from the original remote. I call both keys in the power on and power off macros just fine.

Devices without setup codes must be learned.

Seems logical to me.

Learned functions cannot be included in Macros.

As Craig states, OFA is wrong about this. I can verify you can reference learned codes, as long as they are on already programmed into a button. What OFA may have meant is that you cannot inlude the learning sequence when you are creating a macro. You CAN include the 994 sequence for advanced functions in a macro, thus not needing to use a key for them.

Hence, No all system off/on for learned devices.

I use two learned discrete OFFs in my shutdown macro. They were taught to my Cinema7 from my Pronto. I found the discrete codes for the pronto on this site.

My suspect device is a dishplayer (Echostar)

Sorry, don't have one.

Dave B. put this one in your pipe and smoke it.

Sorry, don't smoke.


Dave ;-)

Thanks for all the feedback, but for me and my stubborn dishplayer the learned off (4L) works nicely by itself, but still will not cooperate in my system off macro. The words from the girl from OFL are either a curse, or simply inexplicably true for Dishplayer. According to you fellows the evidence leans toward the former. I'll have to study (also without smoke) the inclusion of a 994 sequence, o obeewan Dave of remote macros. Hope is out there.

David, You're getting quite a reputation.

I have a Dishplayer and have the exact same problem. Never figured out a way to fix it. Interestingly enough 1 out of maybe 10 times it actually works correctly. I can't imagine what would cause this. I always point it directly at the Dishplayer's IR port. Maybe its the state that the remote is in when I press the shutdown macro. Or I wonder if it has anything to do with where in the macro the learned function is placed. I have it try to turn off the Dishplayer before anything else.

Chris,
Re: Dishplayer learned macro.
You said the macro'd off worked about every tenth try... I have only seen it work once. (but once is once!)

Our only hope is for "Dave B" or "ingenious" to go out and buy a dishplayer... they'd figure it out. Do a search on Ingenious or Dave B if your still following this thread and see if you can derive some insite, and please let me know.


I can hope can't I

Wayne

Ps. I still want to believe that there is a phantom yet undiscovered device code that will liberate us Dishplayer owners' learned memory to be used in more appropriate places in our systems.
WH

Would it be ridiculous of me to suggest CBL/SAT
device code 0775? Does the power button not work
with that device code? Am I missing the point,
here?

-=Ingenious=-

Try changing the sequence of button presses in your macros that include the dishplayer OFF code. The previous or following code may "interfere" with the dishplayer OFF and confuse the Dishplayer. On the pronto, many stubborn IR code problems are cured by putting a short DELAY between the codes. It's really too bad the ONE4ALL line doesn't include a delay. You might be able to reference another random code and try to use it as a delay.

This is only a THEORY, but one based on a plethora of clues spread around these forums. What would be nice is if one of you with the dishplayer learned code problem would experiment with your code and tell us the results.

- Try making it the ONLY code in a macro. See if it works.
- Add codes one at a time to the macro, before and after the code. Try the macro after each single code addition. Note if and when the dishplayer code stops working if it ever started working in a macro.
- If an added code makes the dishplayer code stop working, try the same macro but with some OTHER code from another device in the offending position.

I'm guessing that if the code works standalone, then we can get it working in a macro. It's just going to take some careful experimentation. You'll have to do it though. I ain't got no Dishplayer. ;-(


Dave

Ingenious (and then David B),

I only wish I had overlooked the obvious, but it has been surmised here and elsewhere that there is no satellite code for the dishplayer. So all the programming for it has been learning from it's dedicated remote, which has been successful to the limits of the memory of the C7, the snafu has been that the successfully learned (4L dishplayer off) key, when included in the system off/on macro sequence, doesn't respond except rarely.

Dave,
Thanks, I'll spend some time with it tonight with your suggestions. Oh, but how much nicer to have a dedicated code, I'm having to decide what functions to live without because of short memory.

Wayne

I don't have a dishplayer, but if someone wanted
to make a digitized sample of a genuine
Dishplayer remote's power button available
somewhere on the web, such that I could study it,
there's a decent chance I could find a way of
fooling the Cinema 7 into sending advanced codes
to it, allowing you to augment the learning
memory with 994 codes, which you COULD put in a
macro, giving you much more versatility.

So who's game to cough up the digitized sample?

-=Ingenious=-

David B,
I tried your suggestions, and a macro with nothing but the learned off/on key in the sequence doesn't even work. It is interesting that when I push the 4L button the light stays on as long as I'm pushing it, but the macro with nothing but the 4L in it just blinks once. The macro with my whole system off/on (including the unresponsive 4L blinks four times.

I guess I can hope that the next UFA that hits the market will have the codes built in. I could relax about the matter but my wife has to experiment between a number of remotes, sometimes to frustration, just to watch TV. She's trying to understand that Cable/Sat is not the Satellite, exit means system on as well as off, 4L means satellite on/off, and nothing works unless the remote is in reciever mode.. along with the intermittent TV/VCR (video mode) cunundrums, but really, she'd "just like to watch TV!".

The C7 is doing a great job... if I could only convince her.

Wayne

I exaggerate, she gets it.. almost.

I understand your problems getting others, or
even yourself, to understand such a potentially complicated remote. I've had the same problems
getting my "significant other" to understand the
remotes.

My solution, albeit an obvious one, is to print
out what each button does on a computer, cut and
paste this information on the back of the remote,
and anywhere you can on it. Also include the
instructions on how to operate the tv. Cover the
paper with transparent Mac-Tac.

Solved!

David, Ing. and all,

I got the learned key to respond in the macro. I had to erase and then relearn the 4L key to clean up what was probably a long wasteful signal. After realizing that the instructions from both the online and the book manual from the C7 asked you to hold down the dedicated remotes key during learning "until the red light flashes twice". I thought, "what does the C7 do with all that continuous information for two seconds? So when I re-learned 4L I defied the manual and simply pecked the key. It still took a second or two for the C7 to blink, but now it works!

Does it not seem like the C7 would be wasting a lot of memory gagging on the two second key press? I went back and relearned a number of my other buttons, and I was able to learn additional new buttons, probably ten or so, even when before I had run out of memory.

Question:

What is happening after I learn a new command and for a period of time the C7 kind of has a stroke? many, if not all the buttons stop working and the light does the flicker thing. I fiddle with switching back and forth between functions and it eventually clears, and I was eventually still able to learn even more keys after that .

Question:

Did I see it stated somewhere that advanced function codes take less memory, and that if I were to find the codes to some of my learned commands I could free up yet more memory?

I printed a page from starbase that may have some I need, but there areas in the lists where I couldn't decifer what numbers next to some of the codes had to do with.... well lets just say I need to study the matter even to know what to ask.

The result of the formentioned breakthrough has allowed me to create very useful macros, and It's no longer as confusing to my dear wife.

And Ing. what you suggest is way over my head, but you know, without commiting myself, as I still have some bugs to work out, not having dedicated codes may be somewhat a blessing in disguise. If I had SAT codes for the dishplayer, I would have been toggling between just one more device key, when I have been able to get 90+% of the dishplayer functions under my prologic reciever's key... and it's starting to look like I could have used a "Cinema 3 learning Remote" if they made one.

I'm still pouring over yours and David B's notes for more tweaks and customizations. I'm slow, but Tenacious.

Keep it up and thanks,

Wayne

Wayne,

The hideous manual strikes again, eh? :)

>What is happening after I learn a new command
>and for a period of time the C7 kind of has a
>stroke?

If it recovers on its own, I suspect it may
simply be doing garbage collection. I don't know
how much you know about programming, but often,
in some systems, you'll find that the free
(unallocated) memory is highly fragmented, so it
would make sense for the remote, after each new
key is learned (or deleted) to reorganize memory
so that all the empty areas are at the end, back
to back, forming one contiguous region of memory
in which to learn more signals. This process is
called garbage collection, and takes a moment.

>Did I see it stated somewhere that advanced
>function codes take less memory, and that if I
>were to find the codes to some of my learned
>commands I could free up yet more memory?

From all I've read on the subject, it appears
there are two completely seperate areas of
memory, one for learning, and one for everything
else. (key movers, macros, etc.)

However, finding codes for your devices is still
better, because the number of key moves/advanced
codes you can store is about 45 (assuming no
macros are taking up part of their space),
whereas the number of things you can learn seems
to range somewhere between 15 and 30, depending
on device...and now I found out, also depending
on whether you hold down the button when
recording. :) (I suspected as much, but didn't
actualy test it. Perhaps I'll rerecord all my
learned keys.)

>And Ing. what you suggest is way over my head...

It's not that hard. You just hook a solar cell
up to the LINE IN port on a sound card, start the
computer digitizing sound, point the dishplayer's
original factory remote at the solar cell, press
the remote button you'd like to digitize, and
then stop recording. You take the file
(preferably 44100 samples per second, in mono),
and you make it available on a web site
somewhere, and make its address known here.

DISCLAIMER: By reading, or acting on, the above
paragraph, you agree to bear all responsibility,
and hold me (the Author) wholly unresponsible for
any and all consequences which may arise from the
use or misuse of the above ideas. My statement
of said ideas is not to be construed as an
endorsement of, or promise of fitness of, the
proceures outlined above.

If you fry a component, like maybe your sound
card, It isn't my fault. (Although it didn't seem
to fry mine.)

I wonder if anyone else out there with the a
dishplayer is also a techie...?

-=Ingenious=-

P.S. -- Happy New Year, Everyone! :)