Ok, gang, here's the scenerio:

I was called in to clean up someone else's mess (don't you love these?)...anyway, previous company has installed a 42" NEC plasma in the master bedroom, a 19"(ish) LG LCD in the master bath, and is feeding both from equipment located in the living room via 3xRG-6Q for component video.

The video sources hooked up are as follows:

DVD player: connected via splitter to receiver and Zektor4.1 component video switch box.

DirecTiVoHD: connected via splitter to Zektor4.1 component video switch box.

Zektor4.1: connected via splitter to NEC plasma in master bedroom, LCD in master bathroom

In case you haven't already figured it out, the picture on the plasma is ok, but not great, and has the following problems:

1) RINGING badly, with a ghost appx. 2" to the right of everything.

2) Fairly low video signal. My ISF buddy who attempted to calibrate this set says he can't get it nailed down because signal is too low.

...and the picture on the LCD is just OK, but is very dark.

Now for the question....how do I fix this? I was considering a component video distribution amplifier, but I'd need two of them, and that gets expensive. Any other thoughts, or questions you need me to answer, fire away!

Thanks in advance for the help!

Fred Forlano
Higher Definition

Fred:
The most likely culprit is the RG/6Q.
This cable is really designed for RF signals not baseband video.
What other cables are there (cat 5, RG/59 etc.)?

I'm sure that you're aware that you can't passively "split" component video signals (composite either for that matter).

The best way to do it would obviously to be to add a couple of component video distribution amps.

If that's too much $ for your customer, then how about simply sending composite signals to the 19"? I suppose that you could modulate the two video sources as well.

I'm surprised that an ISF technician would even attempt to calibrate that system. The darkness is the inherent problem with splitting baseband video like that.

And another issue......

I'm guessing that the plasma is 16:9 and the LCD is 4:3? That would obviously cause aspect ratio problems for one of the two displays.

It's a horribly designed system.

Unfortunately, it's a total of 5xRG6Q and 1xCat5(used for IR).

looks like I'm pulling new cable and probably getting a distribution amp or two....


Yeah, that's what I figured.


Customer is a techie who wants HD signal all over the house. Modulated video ain't gonna cut it with him.


The tech did the best he could with what he had to work with. The primary complaint from the customer was that the display was nowhere near as bright as promised when sold to him. I told him I'd have an ISF tech look at it to see what he could do. Hasn't charged him yet, waiting for us to resolve the issue.


Actually, it might be a 17", but it's 16:9 as well. I agree it's horribly designed. The previous company went cheap, and don't even get me started on the NuVo system they attempted to install for whole-house audio.....

So it looks like I'm lookin' at 2 distribution amps and possibly some new wire....this should be fun.

Thanks guys! Anyone else want to throw their $.02 worth into the fray?

Fred

Fred: It is possible to pass 1080P over Cat 5 (with a great picture) and then use the RG for audio and IR.
Not cheap, but it will do a great job.
Fred, call me if you get a chance.
BTW:
With the cat 5 unit you can support up to 4 screens displaying the same source.

You thinking about BALUNS? I was thinking about them, too, but that'd gonna require new CAT pulls, and I'd still need some way to split the two sources to both TVs...

No Baluns. Active system rock solid video.

And, adding to Brent's idea, using the coax with Xantech couplers as a route for the IR.

From a troubleshooting angle, what happens when the plasma is fed directly from the DVD player? If that's ok, then a da is in your future as an alternative...

I'm going to disagree with Brentm on this one. The RG-6 quad is not the problem. Both RG-59 and RG-6 are 75 ohm. The RG-6 will have a lower loss per ft across the entire bandwidth, leading to fewer problems for signal level with the RG-6.

The clue to the problem is #2. Too low a signal. The sources are designed to put out a specific signal strength. Running the signal through a splitter drops the signal by at least 3dB, in other words, power drops in half. 100 ft of cable will also give about 2-3dB. I usually count about 0.5dB per connector, for about a total of roughly 6dB or more loss.

If I remember correctly, component video is about 1V peak to peak (1Vpp). A 3dB loss will result in 0.707 of the original, or in this case 0.707Vpp. But since we have about 6dB of loss, we have 1Vpp*0.707*0.707 = 0.544Vpp

I believe most manufacturers allow for about 2-3dB of loss, so the video amps will work with 0.707Vpp input. Your input at right around 0.5Vpp is just too low, so you're likely seeing some of the reflections caused by less than ideal terminations caused by the RCA connectors. Once the main signal level is back up, the reflections will be much closer to the noise, and vanish.

I believe is you use a video distribution amp where you split the signal, you will have a clear picture.

BCF: While RG6 properly terminated it is most likely CS (copper clad steele) CS will absolutely provide sub-standard baseband video.
We have tested all types of RG and found that copper/copper (RG/6 or RG/59) provide the best baseband video (component is 3 baseband feeds).
CS is popular for Quad because in the vast number of cases it is used for modulated signals with higher freqs. (re: DSS & CATV)and is cheaper than all copper. BC (bare copper) is the choice of Pro Video because of its better 450 mhz performance.

DVD directly to Plasma is fine. Problem definately lies in the RG6Q/splits.

Just a quick question, you have been refering to them as "splitters", I refer to RCA splitters as Y-adapters or cables, you don't mean that they are using RF Splitters do you? (That would be bad, I've seen it before) Also it seems that you really need a 2in 3out switch, you could get rid of the splitters and run the sources into the 4.1 and just put a distro amp on the output to feed all 3 displays, but that would mean that all displays would watch the same thing which it seems that the kitchen and mbed are already set up that way. Rather than adding distribution amps and such, do it right and just replace the 4in 1out switch with the proper piece and that should be all you need. Plus with a proper matrix switch they can now watch satelite in one room and DVD in another.

A CE Labs disty amp (1x4) is only like $175 retail. Exactly how cheap are they wanting this fixed? Seems that would be cheaper than running new cables anyway. Granted, its possibly 2 sperate problems, but at least w the distribution amp, they will have "watchable" TV.

Yes, I'm referring to a "Y" cable (which I call a splitter out of bad habit). Single male RCA to dual female RCA. Bad bad bad, but like I said, I inhereted this mess.


No set price yet from the client, I'm just looking for all options, and want to be able to present the 'best value' solution to them. Bear in mind, the picture is 'watchabe', and if it weren't for the fact that he's a tweak, most people would be fine with it, considering it's being viewed from the bed. However, this guy wants the set to 'sparkle', and I need to be able to give him his options.

Fred

To follow up on what Brent said, copper clad steel is not at all appropriate for baseband video because at baseband frequency, the signal is travelling primarily through the center of the conductor, which is steel, and steel is a terrible conductor when compared to copper.

As I recall, CCS was originally used in WWII as communications cable for radar and other things. Aside from the cost factor, it's primary benefit is strength.

Still, your problem is not because of the RG-6.