I've about had it with a customer's HD Tivo Sat recevier. It's control problems are legendary.

I am having issues with remote control lethargy using a MX850 and MRF300. Eveyhting else works great (B&K Ref50; Motorola HD Cable; NAD DVD; Mits VCR; Toshiba DLP RPTV. But the HD Tivo Sat is a real problem. I have serached this forum and seen that other's have had similar problems. I've tried everyhting that everyone else has. Re learning the codes (only made the problem worse). repostioning the emiiter (seems to make a small difference); turning down the emitter (also seems to make a small difference).

I'm to the point that I'm going to recommend another HD sat box (w/o Tivo).

I am so out of the loop on the avail D* TV HD hardware options, I am asking other dealers to comment on what they are comfortable with. Would really like one that has discrete power, but that may be too much to ask for. Do the recent Samsung HD D* TV receivers have discrete power? Are they problematic like the first gen Samsung receivers (needed to be rebooted every month or so)?

Does Sony still make a Sat receiver? LG?

At this point in time, I think you, and your client, wil lhave to suffer through.

Other than using an old stlye IR repeater rather than the RF for the receiver, I know of nothing that will work 100%. Possible to run a simple IR repeater for the time being? I used some old Xantech stock that I had on the last job with the HD10-250, and that cured the problem. PIA, but it works.

No choices anymore. All branded by DTV.
(Unless you set him up with older equipment)

H-10 for HD
R-10 for DVR
HR-250 for HD/DVR

We have a number of HD Tivo sat receivers in the field, controlled by both Marantz and HTM remotes. Other than being a little position-sensitive on the flasher placement, controlling them has not proven to be a problem. Reliability, on the other hand, has been a real problem...

We just had a HR10-250 go bad after 3 days of being active, have been arguing with D****tv on a replacement, they had us swap cards to reactivate the older HD/non tivo to get client by, now they wont take it back for replacement as they swaped cards and original card is not in HR10-250 unit, so we ordered a new card and put new card in old HD unit and put original card back in HR10 unit and still dont want to swap us as card is non commisioned now. has been a month now, we finally bought a new unit to get client happy, trying to get it replaced by distributor now but the card issue keeps coming up, they wont send a new card as its not the original cardfor the unit to be replaced.

This whole ordeal will give us maybe 1.00 profit from Dire*tv in the long run but cost us a day or two in labor in phone calls
Dir*ctv is no longer in our products list as we wont sell anymore, we are going to use a local guy we know to do the dish install and supply all the receivers, we will still wire for all of it in prewire, supply and install the multiswitch and such but when its time for the product someonelse will supply, this way if there is a failure we dont have to deal with it other than pulling a rack to allow access to sat dude for fixing it and we can now charge for a service call to assist the sat dude

this unit was controlled by crestron with no issues, several other were RTI with no issues, we dont sell URC anymore

Let's just hope that when we have to exchange every Direct TV receiver out there for an MPEG 4 unit (in the near future) they will work better than these current models.

Home boy

We have had the same problem.

I like the post of using different boxes for everything.

Direct TV along with DishNetwork is a real pain.

When these two companies really started in business it took the custom guys to guide them through all there problems.

I still bet there isn't anyone from the two satellite companies who could modulate a receiver. They have really stacked the deck in there favor.

I wish you luck and I feel your pain.

Mike

So who is making the H-10? I'm guessing that Hughes is making the HR-250 and that is what I'm having issues with. If it is the same IR code set and IR window/electronics then my problems won't go away on this job by switching to the H-10.

I refuse to sell sat products but I still have to integrate into them. The customer went to Best Buy and found an RCA HD D*TV receiver. I don't know what model it its but does anyone have any expereince with them? My last expereince with an RCA HD was the first gen RCA (I still have one personally, that I use for off air HD) It did have discrete IR codes. Has RCA changed their IR control set for subsequent (2nd & 3rd Gen) models?

BTW, I was able to play around with the IR emiiter and get a 90% reliablity (MX850/MRF300) today. I have the emiiter turned up to about 60% and the emitter stuck on the upper right area of the window. Starnge, but it seems to like this combo the best. Still not 100% reliable and I've a feeling that this will come back to haunt me.

FWIW. What I found while playing around with my system.

HD10-250 works perfectly over the old Xantech hardwired IR set up (which consists of a Micro Link, connecting block and old emitters), using either an old MX-500 (wife's remote), a TSU2000, or the MX-950 (using IR only).

HD10-250 does NOT work quite so well with the MX-950/MRF300 combo. It's really hit and miss with this set up.

On a side note.

I read just the other day that LG has the contract to build the new mpeg4 decoders for DTV, and that they will supposedly output both component/compsite at the saem time....Should we not get our hopes up?

I have no problem with the control of the Tivo by TUS-7000 and TSU-7500 to RFX 6000 and 6500. The only issue is how slow the box is. It has nothing to do with the controler the boxes are just slow.

Guide... wait wait wait wait a little more.. then the guide comes up. Whatever. Slow but they work. Well as for th emech break downs.. we have had a few of those. Not looking forward to the reprograms with the new box. More and more of our clients are going to Comcrap. Yeah the DVR sucks but they don't have to dump all the money upfront.

Besides with the rumor all over the pl;ace about the TIVO Comcrap deal. Well they asre leaving the DiSH in dorves out here.

the man (FP Crazy) asked for help and all anyone can do is bitch. this is why you all have so many problems with your technology, inanimate objects do not respond to bitching. with that said. i recently had problems with a similar setup (MX-3000, MRF-300). The solution i came up with was a combination of antenna placement, ir emmitter placement, and a relearn of the codes. I attribute the success of being able to control the device to the relearn of the codes. I have found that unless you completely erase the preprogrammed codes out of your editor the new dont seem to take as well. i urge you to try and relearn the codes to a 3000 then transfer to your mx editor for use in the wand models. if this does not work then perhaps i could send them to you. and please to all, if you let the machine piss you off then its already won. mcdonalds is always hiring.

There is an issue with controlling these boxes, but it has to do with the frequency at which the IR code is transmitted. (Differences between 40-56khz) Two companies (Niles & Russound) have stated that Direct TV introduced some new type of PCM? technology for IR control and that is uses a very narrow band for transmitting IR.
When used with a Russound CA system, you must purchase a 56k IR remodulator. (Essentially, this device blocks the entire IR band and limits it to only the upper portion of that bandwidth).
In case of Niles ZR series, you must download the files (H10, R10, R250) directly from Niles to correct this issue.
We had problems with installs from both companies using Direct TV boxes and both of these fixes solved our problems. I am not aware of other control system problems, however, it might be worth purchasing one of these Russound 56k remodulators to see if they solve issues for you in your systems. They cost less than $10. The only requirement that is needed is a 12V onboard trigger output to power the 56k remodulator.

Wire Nuts,

I could not find this Russound IR remodulator that you speak of. It is nowhere to be found on their web site. Is it something you have to ask customer service for?

Your theory is interesting and I do suspect that something is fishy about the IR frequency or code that the MX850/MRF300 is sending to the HR10-250 (or whatever the model # is on this HD Tivo).

It has a mild latency when you press the button on the 850 remote. BTW, I have a Xantech IR repeater hooked up to the MRF300 and when I pick up the factory remote and attempt to control the unit over IR repeating, the response is similarly latent. So it isn’t just the MX850 (which is on RF only) it seems to be that way on simply IR repeating.

I have tried many things including:

1.Deleting the IR database codes and relearning the codes into the MX850. This made things much worse and it barely worked at all. I tried this several times with different methods of learning (holding down the button when learning and even quick button presses) – all to no avail. I ended up going back to the IR database.
2.Turning the blaster all the way down, all the way up, etc.. Down all the way was very bad. All the way up was not as bad but not very good. Best results seem to be between 50 and 65%.
3.Different positions of the emitter on the round IR window. Best results seem to be on the upper right hand corner of the window. Place it in the center of the window and it the latency is dramatic. Move it just 3/8” and the change is very evident. Amazing that ¼” to 3/8” can make such a difference.

Currently with all of these small tweaks, it is working pretty well. 19/20 button pushes are responding properly. 3 digit channel macros are working 9 out of 10 times. I am encouraged by the way it is working, but I fear that if someone bumps the emitter, control performance will tank. I guess it also makes me feel uneasy because I’ve been around long enough to know that these types of problem will haunt you forever, until it is completely resolved. Fortunately I did not sell the Sat receiver and the customer is wealthy. They will pay me until it is fixed and I do not have to eat my time on this.

Based on how close it is to working fine, I do question the theory of the 56k remodulation. If that were the problem, I would think that it would not be working this good and that the few tweaks I have made to eek out this level of performance, would not yield any benefits. I wish Eric Johnson would read this thread and dive into this issue. From what I’ve read there are many out there that have given up on this (MX850/MRF300/D*TV HR250) combo of equipment.

Also, I am getting zero RF interference on this system. And all other equipment in the system is working w/o incidence. I’ve dons several MX850/MRF300 systems and I am now pretty damn good at isolating RF interference issues and solving that. I am no longer intimidated by that at all. But I do feel that my last few issues with the MRF300 (whether coupled to a an MX3000 or 850) have been IR issues and the way URC is shaping the IR code before it is sent to the emitter.

Thanks to all for all your comments and suggestions. If we can get this solved I feel many will benefit.

Well even though the 56 remod module isn't on Russound's web site Fred's company does have it on their web site so I ordered one today. I'll let you know how this works.

There is no pic so is it safe to assume it hookls up like this:

HD Tivo Sat is on emitter output #3 on the MRF300. So, take the output #3 and connect it direct into the input of the Russound 56k module (presumably using a 1/8" mono to 1/8" mono cable). Then plug an emitter into the output of the 56k remod module and tack it on the front of the Sat recv'r?

Oh and also I'll have to plug a 12 volt power supply into the Russound 56k module?

I'm betting that the Russound 56k remodulator isn't going to help a bit. But, I hope you can prove me wrong.

Is there NO possibility of running a hardwire (22x4 or such) to the display location so you can use a conventional IR repeater?

I know for a fact that this will work....