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Topic:
what else can get hacked? Customers concerned?
This thread has 27 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Monday February 21, 2005 at 07:15
juliejacobson
CE Pro Magazine
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I read here about phone systems being hacked. What other security threats can face your consumers when it comes to their home technology?

Any horror stories about home automation systems being invaded? What do you do to prevent such problems?

Also, is this a big issue for your customers when you try to sell them home technologies?
thanks
"CEPro: your website sucks!" - Fins
www.cepro.com
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Post 2 made on Monday February 21, 2005 at 08:38
GotGame
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Tell your customers to watch the Discovery Program "to Catch a Thief". IF that doesn't promote video and alarm sales, well, I don't know what would.

Thank you discovery channel.
I may be schizophrenic, but at least I have each other.
Post 3 made on Monday February 21, 2005 at 16:24
Late Night Bill
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I think there is some flawed logic in how most people perceive technology, as pimped by those providing the technology. People perceive technology as something that will make their lives easier, safer, more convenient, etc. Only a few people fully understand the technology and it's weaknesses, so for the rest, it has to become a blind faith that the technology will do what it supposed to.

Just as you, Julie, ask this question, Paris Hilton will be asking, and customers will be asking the basic question of, how do I know it is safe? And the only honest answer that any of us can give is, I don't know. Even the designer of our various goodies we build our dependencies on can't guarantee 100% safety against electronic attacks. The only thing that we can promise to do is to do our due diligence and use the commonly accepted security measures such as firewalls, good passwords, and common sense. Beyond that it is like the weatherman guaranteeing sunshine on Saturday for the big game.

So to your question of what types of security threats do our customers face?
*A criminal could remotely use you own IP enabled security cameras to 'case the joint' and know exactly what you patterns are.
*The same criminal could remotely open gates, garage doors, disarm alarms to gain access to your home.
*A virus could be implanted into you set top box that would dial expensive 900 numbers during the night.
*Your robot could suddenly turn on you to protect you from yourself... oh wait, that was a movie. :)
Post 4 made on Monday February 21, 2005 at 17:13
Audible Solutionns
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Phone systems with mail boxes
Any router
Any device connected to that router

Since more appliances come with Ethernet connections, in theory you refridgerator, Palm Pilot, Blackberry, Security system, lighting system, or any other device connected to a control system that is connected to the external world via analog or digital connectioin.

Any device with on line help.

Which is why you WEP encrypt ( at minimum ) all wireless networks, firewall all hard wired network connectiions and remove all default names and passwords from any and all devices, including but not limited to garage doors systems, gate control systems and security panels. It is also why you should change passwords on bank accounts, and other secure connections randomly but periodicly. It is also why you should not use passwords that are easily connected with you such as a date of birth or your name spelled backwards or that of your children.

There is no such thing as complete security. Leaders of governments have been assinated and armored cars intercepted. There are things you can do to discourrage intrusion or make it more difficult so that a thief will look for someone else with a system that is easier to enter. A professional thief will be able to disable your car alarm if he really wants the car or get into your home if he really wishes to do so. But not every thief is a professional of the highest order. If a hacker really wants to get in he may succeed and there are all sorts of methods including software placed on computers without the user noticing, such as the cookies web sites like this one place on your computer, that can be used to make this possible. There are many flaws built into Windows that can be exploited such as not turning off Windows Messinger. Microsoft has listed many of the things one can do to protect one's network and computer but not many users pay attention or have the skills to follow the directions. And few of us have the time to be full time IT managers for our client's systems. But if you take some simple precautions you can minimumize the chances of your exposure.

Alan
"This is a Christian Country,Charlie,founded on Christian values...when you can't put a nativiy scene in front fire house at Christmas time in Nacogdoches Township, something's gone terribly wrong"
OP | Post 5 made on Monday February 21, 2005 at 20:00
juliejacobson
CE Pro Magazine
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do you ever hear that as a big objection--won't get that system/product because I'm afraid of security breaches?
thanks all for your input.
"CEPro: your website sucks!" - Fins
www.cepro.com
[Link: twitter.com]
Post 6 made on Monday February 21, 2005 at 20:29
ebecker
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don't forget about cell phones now
Post 7 made on Monday February 21, 2005 at 20:34
AHEM
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On 02/21/05 20:00 ET, juliejacobson said...
do you ever hear that as a big objection--won't
get that system/product because I'm afraid of
security breaches?
thanks all for your input.

Only if the product happens to be made by Microsoft
Post 8 made on Monday February 21, 2005 at 23:22
Brad Humphrey
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On 02/21/05 20:29 ET, ebecker said...
don't forget about cell phones now

Yeah, I seen that on a popular IT news website recently. These new cell phones that are web enabled are getting hacked (info, contacts, ect... stolen), viruses planted, ect... It's happening at some exponential rate that just started late last year in Japan, I think?

I never liked those tricked out phones anyway, their more of a pain than helpful. Just give me a nice phone with call ID, call waiting, voicemail w/indication, phone directory, speed dial, and maybe a calendar and/or alarm clock. What else do you need or would want in a cell phone ???
Post 9 made on Monday February 21, 2005 at 23:42
ATOH
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The hacked phones have bluetooth in them don't they? I always thought that particular tech was wasteful unless it's OFF by default, and I'm sure it's not.

AMEN to Late Nite Bill's statements. Consumers, yes even some of us, are ignorant of the many faults in technology. Nothing is perfect, batten down the hatches as tight as possible. That's about all you can do.
Why all the fighting and cussing? Can't Dave play nice? We're just here to learn and have fun. It was a harmless jab, laugh and get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BTW... S-E-A-R-C-H!!!
or do the work!!!
Post 10 made on Tuesday February 22, 2005 at 00:12
bcf1963
Super Member
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ATOH,

Best you stick to something you know something about, and spare us from your wisdom on things you don't... of which Bluetooth is obviously one.

I've never seen a Bluetooth enabled device that didn't require "Training". This involves sync'ing the two devices so they share a key, and develop a trust relationship. With the security measures in Bluetooth enabled, it would be really quite difficult to hack.

Of course, It's always possible to send a message, and get the user to select or enable something after performing a little "Social Engineering". And anyone who doesn't know what "Social Engineering" refers to, doesn't know much about how security is really kept!
Post 11 made on Tuesday February 22, 2005 at 00:24
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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On 02/21/05 23:22 ET, Brad Humphrey said...
Just give me
a nice phone with call ID, call waiting, voicemail
w/indication, phone directory, speed dial, and
maybe a calendar and/or alarm clock. What else
do you need or would want in a cell phone ???

Well, I am personally still really pissed that the two newer models of Nokia I have owned, that have the nice color displays,
a)lost the game "snake II." It is the only phone game I ever played as the others seem stupid. Wait -- even more stupid.
b)lost the nice program that let me write my own ring tone. Who cares if it sounded like crap? Do you have any idea how cool it is to be in a meeting with important clients and suddenly have a single-voice MIDI rendition of "My Sharona" start playing? I miss those days.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 12 made on Tuesday February 22, 2005 at 00:46
Audible Solutionns
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On 02/21/05 20:00 ET, juliejacobson said...
do you ever hear that as a big objection--won't
get that system/product because I'm afraid of
security breaches?

1. When we first began to program systems from the WAN side some clients were reluctant, especially those with secure connections to their offices. These feelings were mostly irrational and easily soothed. Strangely, they had none of these objections to modum connections.

2. We get more requests not to encrypt wireless as it makes the network more difficult for their friends and guests to access. I cannot tell you the number of executives who, when given the choice between security, the possibility of a breach and ease of access choose the latter. They realize that most of their friends do not know how to add an encryption key to their network adaptors and prefer to risk a hacker's penitration over any possible inconvenience to their guests.

This will change as a more computer literate generation takes over corporate America but such is my experience, for what it's worth. It will also change when more of us learn how to administer networks remotely and setup routers accordingly.

Alan
"This is a Christian Country,Charlie,founded on Christian values...when you can't put a nativiy scene in front fire house at Christmas time in Nacogdoches Township, something's gone terribly wrong"
Post 13 made on Wednesday February 23, 2005 at 00:03
ATOH
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bcf1963,
Like I said in my post, even we are ignorant about some technology things. I was asking a question, not making a statement about bluetooth in particular. I still "personally" don't see that it makes that much sense with 802.11a/b/g. The bluetooth headsets for cell phones that I've seen have been about the only good use I've seen so far. Sorry that I'm NOT a cell phone guy. :-)
Why all the fighting and cussing? Can't Dave play nice? We're just here to learn and have fun. It was a harmless jab, laugh and get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BTW... S-E-A-R-C-H!!!
or do the work!!!
Post 14 made on Wednesday February 23, 2005 at 00:25
Audible Solutionns
Super Member
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ATOH

Off topic but you will be seeing much more when hardware with embedded Zigbee comes to market. Control4 is but one example though many other manufactureres will use what is essentially Bluetooth in slightly different form as a control platform. It will not be just cell phones, although I suspect that a lot of applications for Windows CE will be forthcoming because of cell phones and PDAs. And then we will see an other possible entrance for hackers to enter your home and/or system if you are not careful. But there are numberous safety measures built into these protocols to ensure that your data and LAN will be safe but as Paris Hilton has discovered Hacker's are an ingenius lot.

Alan
"This is a Christian Country,Charlie,founded on Christian values...when you can't put a nativiy scene in front fire house at Christmas time in Nacogdoches Township, something's gone terribly wrong"
Post 15 made on Wednesday February 23, 2005 at 00:44
ATOH
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763
Alan,
I understand there are safety protocols, etc. built into the devices. My issue is that many times the security is "OFF" by default and the feature is fully enabled to be used. Just like a Linksys router's wireless security is off by default and SSID broadcast is "ON". Verizon sends out a Westell modem for their DSL that the firewall is off by default. If these security measures aren't on by default most consumers won't turn them on, especially if it makes it harder to use the product. I guess it's finally time to read up on bluetooth. Time to hit Amazon!

I had thought that I had read somewhere months ago about bluetooth phones getting hacked, Nokia ones I had thought. I was asking if that was correct or not and got flamed for it.

:-(

I apologize to everyone for getting off topic.

Thank you Alan for the info about Zigbee. Everything wireless just seems to open up too many "what ifs". I would much prefer to run wire to everything even if that means spending hours running one wire.
Why all the fighting and cussing? Can't Dave play nice? We're just here to learn and have fun. It was a harmless jab, laugh and get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BTW... S-E-A-R-C-H!!!
or do the work!!!
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