My, my, that says it right there. Not enthusiastic, not convinced, not incredibly pleased that their product exists, not glad to deal with the equipment or the corporate personnel, not ready to show you a list of things that are better about the stuff... but DEVOUT.

That's the kind of term you use with a religion, isn't it? You're of that religion, your parents are/were of that religion, you don't question that you go there (I couldn't even call it a choice!), you think whatever problems they might have are worth it... jeez, this lines up too too well. I could go on (and I left out the worst ones)!

Trust me, WE KNOW!!!

That was just a sample of humor right there. I know you know, ya know?

Yup - from the RXV385 up.
They've done it for longer than I can remember...

Now that, finally, people are simply recommending Yamaha, can someone tell me what the problem with them was in the 90s? There was some rumor that they didn't sound right. What the hell was that all about?

Typical of Japanese designed electronics of the era, they sounded a little "bright" compared to the US or European designs. If you threw them on the bench the IM distortion was a little higher. While I have no metric for this, you can watch the residual distortion trace on the scope and predict which units will seem a little bright (or raspy -- if you don't like it) The distortion trace will tend to be a little jagged on the bright units. This is a qualitative judgement, I have no hard science for this, but others have made this observation too, and it is not 100% predictive.

That crap always makes me laugh.
There was never anything wrong with Yamaha back in the 90's other than some retailers / distros smearing their name. It happens to ALL brands, whether you notice or care will depend on how invested you are in the company and what side of the fence you sit on.
Remember the rubbish like:
"Marantz is warm, but slow".
"Yamaha is fast, but bright".
"Pioneer is powerful, but makes your ears bleed".
It's all trash, after all, the HiFi / home cinema press is full of bias and rubbish... but some of it sticks.

Remember when the Japanese turntable manufacturers pushed their (great sounding) direct drive turntables... and the British press rallied heavily against the very concept of anything that wasn't belt-driven? You could guarantee the UK audio writers would recommend a Linn or similar to ANY consumer, whether they were buying a high-end system or wanting to connect it to a budget all-in-one... it was simply biased and most likely to protect a British cottage industry.

The AVR side of the industry is and was no different. The 'Japanese sound' was decried by those who didn't come from Japan... and even though you can tweak an AVR any which way from Sunday, those who decided certain brands carry a particular sonic trait would lampoon them daily and indeed for eternity.

Now, you could have a 100% failure rate with NAD, but certain parts of the audio press would tell you it was EASILY the only choice for your home!
However, where things became unstuck was when English companies were purchased by Japanese companies, then sold to US companies... then sold to companies operating out of the Cayman Islands.
Basically, global economics makes a sham of these 'gear from certain countries sounds a certain way'.

Take Marantz...
Marantz was made in the US, Japan, owned by the Dutch and Japanese and is now under the flag of a US based private equity firm.
Yet they produce 2-channel kit with a Union Jack on the front to appease the British press and garner good reviews in What HiFi?

Basically, spec what will suit the job and you trust, pay attention to global recalls (Onkyo / Integra) and if you aren't looked after and are left short changed - move on. If not, all is well.

I am truly sorry that your hearing is bad. That you were not born with the ability to hear subtleties in life. So much you miss out on.

But please, don't make stupid blanket statements that are simply not true. Any person that has owned (or worked at) a shop and actually cared to 'play' around with different A/V receiver brands (A/B comparing), knows how different sonic signatures can be from product to product.
Again, I'm sorry that you are unable to hear these subtle differences. But they 100% do exist.

As far as whose better. Well that is a lot of bias and person preference. And it also depends a lot on what equipment things are paired with.

Well, this discussion has about as much likelihood of getting resolved as vinyl versus cd, Bose versus whoever… Opinions easily become fact.

The only thing I can tell you is that we had a stereo store with sound rooms, and amplifier/speaker switch boxes.

If the source was identical, and amplifiers were volume matched, a client could not tell the difference between one amplifier and another in A/B testing, feeding the same set of speakers. Volume of course depends on power output, but we are talking about a sonic signature.

Speakers, on the other hand, produced dramatic differences in sound.

I have heard for years that certain brands had a thin sound, others were fuller or warmer… My personal claim is that if you unplug an amplifier and have another one in its place in a half hour, you don’t have the reference needed for a true A/B test.

Blind A/B testing sifts out opinions in a hurry.

Nowadays you can Audyssey or whatever most A/V receivers. At that point they are not flat, so yes you may have differences. Amps set to flat are very neutral.

We sold both new and used equipment over a 30 year span. So there is not a brand on the planet that I have not heard.

Nonetheless, like every other audio debate, it will never truly be settled. All I can give you is my anecdotal information and leave it there.

If comparing 2 brands that are similar to begin with, then I agree it would be indistinguishable.
If you have a chance, try this: Setup a Yamaha receiver and a Denon receiver. Switch back & forth. Those 2 brands have the most different (opposite) sound of all the brands that I know of. It should be quit noticeable.
^ It has been many years since I done that test. I know Yamaha sound has changed some since then.

Brad -
Thanks for making this personal by saying things like 'you feel sorry for me' etc.
It's good to know that you truly, deeply care about me.


Humans get sucked into the marketing hype and think hyperbole and amazing claims in magazines are gospel. Heck, even YouTube 'reviews' and niche forums like this will help change peoples opinions on products. Once we, as human beings read a review somewhere, we take on a few key elements if the writing was articulate and convincing enough and carry them through into the wider world as part of our opinion.

It's the same as when you worked in / owned an AV store.
A senior bloke on the floor or rep from a manufacturer would come in and 'influence' you. Whether you knew it or not, whether you liked it or not - it happened.
And it DEFINITELY worked in their favour to convince you that there is a difference in audio tonality between AVR's. It got you motivated to sell the certain brand / product that they wanted you to push.
It's all marketing.
Now, I'm not saying that you were sucked in by these people...

Well, actually, I am.
It's how the world works.


The fact of the matter is -
The odds are heavily stacked against us.
OUR hearing changes.
And it changes a lot.
OUR ability to hear top end detail decays with age.
OUR ability to reference everything because of this - that also drops away.

You know when you worked in / owned an AV store... did a system sound 'okay' one day, but 'amazing' the following day?
Why was that?
A magical combination of component synergy? The high end power conditioner attached to the end of some expensive aftermarket power leads?
Or was it that you ended up sitting in a car with the stereo up for 45 minutes on the way to work?
Road noise in the car, the hum of an aircon unit all day, the traffic noise from the street, the constant prattling of co-workers... it all makes it next to impossible for us to create a reference for audio. It's why we hear things 'differently' on a day to day basis. Heck, my missus says I only ever hear her when she opens the fridge...

It is what it is.

The issue is that people use all the influencers suggestions (that have now formed their own opinions), 'tired ears' listening sessions and whatever else that changes their thought process... to 'call it how they see it'.

Are they wrong?
Well, yeah... Probably.
Does it matter.
Nope.
Do Yamaha amps sound brighter than Denon's?
No.
Do Denon amps sound duller than Yamaha's?
No.
Do people desperately seek an answer to make sense of the ocean of chaos in which we live?
Yes.

The Yamaha sounds somewhat musical and a tad below being call warm, in comparison to Denon products sounding like a trash compactor, cause that's where they end up when they break :-D

Without a doubt, I can 1000% say that has never happened to me. I already knew Yamaha just sounds better because of the 5th foot 😜