Hi all,

Im using Xantech 282TP Emiiters-- one of the 3.5 mini plugs is going into a standard Xantech connecting block. The other 3.5 mini plug is going to an IR port on an AMX NI-4100 (via a mini plug to phoenix adapter).

Problem is that IR coming from the AMX NI 4100 wont work unless the 3.5 mini plug going into the Xantech block is completely disconnected--therefore defeating the purpose of this device. I need this to work from both the Xantech block AND the AMX system.

this setup uses a basic Xantech IR system as a backup in the video zones along with an advanced control system.

Any ideas what might be going wrong??

thx!

E D I T :

When I wrote this I had not picked up that the LEDs are not two LEDs, but are instead one LED fed from two IR systems. So most of what I say in this post isn't accurate. Why did I get it wrong? The model number was given and I could have verified what it was, but I didn't. Instead, I read "Im using Xantech 282TP Emitters -- one them gets [etc]" and that clearly implied that there are two LEDs. Anyway, the original post:


Forgive me. I've been told I'm process-oriented, so I will take a moment to change this around to indicate signal flow. If I get something wrong, that's where you'll need to look first.


Ok. Now we see where things come from and where they go.


Ok. You have signals from two IR systems going to separate IR emitters, both mounted on an unknown component (it probably doesn't matter but it's nice to share what it is).

Re "problem" -- when the emitter is connected to both the AMX and the Xantech, does the Xantech control the unknown device?

It's unlikely but possible that the Xantech IR is emitting IR all the time, thus messing up the IR signal from the AMX piece. Get out your cell phone, point its camera at an IR remote, push a button, and see if the camera shows the IR as a white or light purple glow. That would indicate that your camera can see IR.

If it can see IR, then put the camera up near the Xantech IR emitter and see if it's dark under the circumstances where the AMX control signal doesn't work.


What do you mean by backup? Does it receive IR signals from somewhere at the same time the AMX sends signals? Is there a chance that the signal from the AMX emitter is hitting whatever sensor (tell us about it) the Xantech system uses?

Is there even a chance that for some reason that I can't even start to explain, when the emitter on the AMX system lights up, and the emitter on the Xantech system lights up, there is somehow a slight time delay between the two? That might be enough to confuse the mystery controlled device.

How the Xantech behaves when the AMX is not in play is an important detail here.


See above.

YW!

That is a problem. That emitter is sold as a way to have or control from two sources, of one device without placing two emitters. Could something be wired wrong on you Phoenix connector?
Another option is go with two emitters. You could place them inside if appearance is an issue.

If I understand this you have two emitters sending IR light to the same device receiver. Each emitter is connected to an independent source. The only time emitter #2 (AMX) is when emitter #1 (Xantech) is disconnected so it can not possibly emit IR light.

Try holding the #2 emitter inside your fist so no IR light can impinge on the receiver from that emitter. If the other emitter #1 now works then you know it is an IR light interference problem.

A xantech non amplified connecting block IIRC is passive. So it can not generate an IR signal only a source device connected to it can. An amplified Xantech connecting block can and in my experience often does generate IR noise.

First, for the readers, let’s clarrify that there is actually only one emitter being used. It has dual 3.5mm male plugs. I didn’t know these existed. I knew that elan used to make y cables for connecting two control systems to one emitter.

This seems like one of those cases of just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. I don’t understand why you want a Xantech connecting block if you have a real control system. Disconnect the receiver on the connecting block. The receiver on the connecting block could be picking up IR and constantly flooding the emitter.

The Xantech 282TP looks like this:



The reason to have this setup is mainly as a backup in case something happens to the control system OR in cases of high channel surfing where AMX/Crestron remote batteries just wont last very long (for any model) being undocked. I can attest that i channel surf with best of them and my directv remote hasnt had batteries replaced in 2 years.

These emitters arent made anymore --i picked up a few some ways back. Still, its designed to be able to do exactly what im trying to do. When i searched the forum users reported success with differing control system i.e. elan/RTI with this cable

when Xantech and AMX ends are both connected --only IR from Xantech works
when only either Xantech OR AMX ends are connected --both IR's  work perfect

as pointed out there has to be something in the Xantech setup --dinky link receiver -> 789-44 connecting block thats somehow blocking control via other devices....

jisaac,

If you have a VOM with a diode checking function, measuring tip to sleeve on either of the 3.5mm plugs should give a reading of about 2.4V in the forward direction. This is assuming about 1.7V for the LED plus about 0.6V for the series isolation diode. Next, check from 3.5mm tip to tip. There should be no diode conductivity here.

I'm not sure what the resistance will be when measuring between the 3.5mm "sleeves" because XANTECH may have inserted series resistors here. Certainly, there should not be an open circuit.

Finally, measure the voltage between the two source chassis while the 3.5mm plugs are not inserted. Measure both AC and DC potentials. This should be very close to zero. If this potential is not close to zero, try adding a chassis to chassis bond wire.

Have you swapped plugs to see if the problem follows the equipment or the plug? You say you picked up a few 282TPs - have you tried another to rule out hardware failure?

That's my fault. I didn't check the model number (chagrin) to realize that this is two feeds to one LED, and it sounded like he was talking about two LEDs. And then, wrong, I went from there....

A crucial thing about the actual product is that the two inputs share a common ground. If the AMX and the Xantech system have no ground interconnection, fine. If their grounds are already connected, probably fine. If there's somehow a voltage difference between the grounds of the two systems, then problem.

Look at and think about, maybe even measure resistance, between the grounds of the two IR outputs. I just remembered, too, Xantech outputs have always been voltage to ground, while a dozen years or so ago, Niles LED driving circuits used open-collector circuitry, so the hot signal going into an LED would be power supply voltage; the "ground" of the LED would be connected to ground through a resistor. If the AMX output is open-collector, connecting the Xantech should turn the AMX LED on HARD. Again, look with your cell phone.

The suggestions to use two LEDs should solve the problem if it's ground-related.

Cold you put the AMX emitter on a Xantech IR receiver so only the Xantech block needs emitters?

(As stated above, likely a ground issue, those emitters likely just have a couple diodes in them to avoid feedback into the other system.)

Just stack two emitters together like we used to do in the B&K days

Brilliant! I wonder if there are Xantech sensors, though. I've asked, no response.

I would just crack the shells off of two standard emitters and hot glue both "naked" emitters inside of one of these:

This is the solution.

Yeah. It's been a LONG time since LEDs were made that were shaped so you could just stick one on top of the other.