Your Universal Remote Control Center
RemoteCentral.com
Custom Installers' Lounge Forum - View Post
Previous section Next section Up level
Up level
The following page was printed from RemoteCentral.com:

Login:
Pass:
 
 

Topic:
IR Control from 2 sources
This thread has 14 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Tuesday December 25, 2018 at 21:23
jisaac
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2005
20
Hi all,

Im using Xantech 282TP Emiiters-- one of the 3.5 mini plugs is going into a standard Xantech connecting block. The other 3.5 mini plug is going to an IR port on an AMX NI-4100 (via a mini plug to phoenix adapter).

Problem is that IR coming from the AMX NI 4100 wont work unless the 3.5 mini plug going into the Xantech block is completely disconnected--therefore defeating the purpose of this device. I need this to work from both the Xantech block AND the AMX system.

this setup uses a basic Xantech IR system as a backup in the video zones along with an advanced control system.

Any ideas what might be going wrong??

thx!
Post 2 made on Wednesday December 26, 2018 at 00:17
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
Joined:
Posts:
December 2001
29,845
E D I T :

When I wrote this I had not picked up that the LEDs are not two LEDs, but are instead one LED fed from two IR systems. So most of what I say in this post isn't accurate. Why did I get it wrong? The model number was given and I could have verified what it was, but I didn't. Instead, I read "Im using Xantech 282TP Emitters -- one them gets [etc]" and that clearly implied that there are two LEDs. Anyway, the original post:


Forgive me. I've been told I'm process-oriented, so I will take a moment to change this around to indicate signal flow. If I get something wrong, that's where you'll need to look first.

On December 25, 2018 at 21:23, jisaac said...
Hi all,

Im using Xantech 282TP Emiiters-- one them gets its IR signal from a 3.5 mini jack on a standard Xantech connecting block. (Model, please?) I also have an AMX NI-400, and I'm using a phoenix connector to mini JACK adaptor to connect to one of its ports for the other IR emitter.

Ok. Now we see where things come from and where they go.

Problem is that IR coming from the AMX NI 4100 wont work unless the 3.5 mini plug going into the Xantech block is completely disconnected--therefore defeating the purpose of this device. (Describe your purpose for this device unless the next sentence is exactly it.) I need this to work from both the Xantech block AND the AMX system.

Ok. You have signals from two IR systems going to separate IR emitters, both mounted on an unknown component (it probably doesn't matter but it's nice to share what it is).

Re "problem" -- when the emitter is connected to both the AMX and the Xantech, does the Xantech control the unknown device?

It's unlikely but possible that the Xantech IR is emitting IR all the time, thus messing up the IR signal from the AMX piece. Get out your cell phone, point its camera at an IR remote, push a button, and see if the camera shows the IR as a white or light purple glow. That would indicate that your camera can see IR.

If it can see IR, then put the camera up near the Xantech IR emitter and see if it's dark under the circumstances where the AMX control signal doesn't work.

this setup uses a basic Xantech IR system as a backup in the video zones along with an advanced control system.

What do you mean by backup? Does it receive IR signals from somewhere at the same time the AMX sends signals? Is there a chance that the signal from the AMX emitter is hitting whatever sensor (tell us about it) the Xantech system uses?

Is there even a chance that for some reason that I can't even start to explain, when the emitter on the AMX system lights up, and the emitter on the Xantech system lights up, there is somehow a slight time delay between the two? That might be enough to confuse the mystery controlled device.

How the Xantech behaves when the AMX is not in play is an important detail here.

Any ideas what might be going wrong??

See above.
thx!

YW!

Last edited by Ernie Gilman on December 26, 2018 22:30.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 3 made on Wednesday December 26, 2018 at 05:59
thecapnredfish
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2008
1,397
That is a problem. That emitter is sold as a way to have or control from two sources, of one device without placing two emitters. Could something be wired wrong on you Phoenix connector?
Another option is go with two emitters. You could place them inside if appearance is an issue.
Post 4 made on Wednesday December 26, 2018 at 12:47
Barry Gordon
Founding Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2001
2,152
If I understand this you have two emitters sending IR light to the same device receiver. Each emitter is connected to an independent source. The only time emitter #2 (AMX) is when emitter #1 (Xantech) is disconnected so it can not possibly emit IR light.

Try holding the #2 emitter inside your fist so no IR light can impinge on the receiver from that emitter. If the other emitter #1 now works then you know it is an IR light interference problem.

A xantech non amplified connecting block IIRC is passive. So it can not generate an IR signal only a source device connected to it can. An amplified Xantech connecting block can and in my experience often does generate IR noise.
Post 5 made on Wednesday December 26, 2018 at 13:16
Fins
Elite Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2007
11,611
First, for the readers, let’s clarrify that there is actually only one emitter being used. It has dual 3.5mm male plugs. I didn’t know these existed. I knew that elan used to make y cables for connecting two control systems to one emitter.

This seems like one of those cases of just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. I don’t understand why you want a Xantech connecting block if you have a real control system. Disconnect the receiver on the connecting block. The receiver on the connecting block could be picking up IR and constantly flooding the emitter.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

OP | Post 6 made on Wednesday December 26, 2018 at 14:16
jisaac
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2005
20
The Xantech 282TP looks like this:


Image result for xantech 282TP
The reason to have this setup is mainly as a backup in case something happens to the control system OR in cases of high channel surfing where AMX/Crestron remote batteries just wont last very long (for any model) being undocked. I can attest that i channel surf with best of them and my directv remote hasnt had batteries replaced in 2 years.

These emitters arent made anymore --i picked up a few some ways back. Still, its designed to be able to do exactly what im trying to do. When i searched the forum users reported success with differing control system i.e. elan/RTI with this cable

when Xantech and AMX ends are both connected --only IR from Xantech works
when only either Xantech OR AMX ends are connected --both IR's  work perfect

as pointed out there has to be something in the Xantech setup --dinky link receiver -> 789-44 connecting block thats somehow blocking control via other devices....
Post 7 made on Wednesday December 26, 2018 at 14:58
buzz
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2003
3,763
jisaac,

If you have a VOM with a diode checking function, measuring tip to sleeve on either of the 3.5mm plugs should give a reading of about 2.4V in the forward direction. This is assuming about 1.7V for the LED plus about 0.6V for the series isolation diode. Next, check from 3.5mm tip to tip. There should be no diode conductivity here.

I'm not sure what the resistance will be when measuring between the 3.5mm "sleeves" because XANTECH may have inserted series resistors here. Certainly, there should not be an open circuit.

Finally, measure the voltage between the two source chassis while the 3.5mm plugs are not inserted. Measure both AC and DC potentials. This should be very close to zero. If this potential is not close to zero, try adding a chassis to chassis bond wire.
Post 8 made on Wednesday December 26, 2018 at 17:20
MediaImageAV
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2012
342
Have you swapped plugs to see if the problem follows the equipment or the plug? You say you picked up a few 282TPs - have you tried another to rule out hardware failure?
Post 9 made on Wednesday December 26, 2018 at 19:54
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
Joined:
Posts:
December 2001
29,845
On December 26, 2018 at 13:16, Fins said...
First, for the readers, let’s clarrify that there is actually only one emitter being used. It has dual 3.5mm male plugs. I didn’t know these existed.

That's my fault. I didn't check the model number (chagrin) to realize that this is two feeds to one LED, and it sounded like he was talking about two LEDs. And then, wrong, I went from there....

A crucial thing about the actual product is that the two inputs share a common ground. If the AMX and the Xantech system have no ground interconnection, fine. If their grounds are already connected, probably fine. If there's somehow a voltage difference between the grounds of the two systems, then problem.

Look at and think about, maybe even measure resistance, between the grounds of the two IR outputs. I just remembered, too, Xantech outputs have always been voltage to ground, while a dozen years or so ago, Niles LED driving circuits used open-collector circuitry, so the hot signal going into an LED would be power supply voltage; the "ground" of the LED would be connected to ground through a resistor. If the AMX output is open-collector, connecting the Xantech should turn the AMX LED on HARD. Again, look with your cell phone.

The suggestions to use two LEDs should solve the problem if it's ground-related.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 10 made on Wednesday December 26, 2018 at 20:37
Rob Grabon
Founding Member
Joined:
Posts:
November 2001
1,363
Cold you put the AMX emitter on a Xantech IR receiver so only the Xantech block needs emitters?

(As stated above, likely a ground issue, those emitters likely just have a couple diodes in them to avoid feedback into the other system.)
Technology is cheap, Time is expensive.
Post 11 made on Wednesday December 26, 2018 at 20:44
Fins
Elite Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2007
11,611
Just stack two emitters together like we used to do in the B&K days
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 12 made on Wednesday December 26, 2018 at 22:24
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
Joined:
Posts:
December 2001
29,845
On December 26, 2018 at 20:37, Rob Grabon said...
Cold you put the AMX emitter on a Xantech IR receiver so only the Xantech block needs emitters?

Brilliant! I wonder if there are Xantech sensors, though. I've asked, no response.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 13 made on Thursday December 27, 2018 at 11:24
Mac Burks (39)
Elite Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2007
17,467
I would just crack the shells off of two standard emitters and hot glue both "naked" emitters inside of one of these:

Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 14 made on Thursday December 27, 2018 at 19:31
Fins
Elite Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2007
11,611
On December 27, 2018 at 11:24, Mac Burks (39) said...
I would just crack the shells off of two standard emitters and hot glue both "naked" emitters inside of one of these:


This is the solution.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 15 made on Thursday December 27, 2018 at 23:31
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
Joined:
Posts:
December 2001
29,845
Yeah. It's been a LONG time since LEDs were made that were shaped so you could just stick one on top of the other.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw


Jump to


Protected Feature Before you can reply to a message...
You must first register for a Remote Central user account - it's fast and free! Or, if you already have an account, please login now.

Please read the following: Unsolicited commercial advertisements are absolutely not permitted on this forum. Other private buy & sell messages should be posted to our Marketplace. For information on how to advertise your service or product click here. Remote Central reserves the right to remove or modify any post that is deemed inappropriate.

Hosting Services by ipHouse