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SONOS vs HEOS , So what happens next?
This thread has 33 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 08:34
Long Time Member
March 2007
Julie wrote an article in CE PRO, there should be a link above, it outlines the patent infringement case in which D&M has apparently LOST quite miserably.

So, what happens next?
Post 2 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 09:02
Loyal Member
July 2009
im pretty sure this means they have to kill all HEOS's
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 3 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 09:40
Loyal Member
September 2004
On February 26, 2018 at 09:02, 3PedalMINI said...
im pretty sure this means they have to kill all HEOS's

Or pay license fees and raise the price.

Sonos made some claims about Denon monitoring the patents while they developed HEOS- does it not make sense to do that? Why go through the trouble to develop something and find that it has already been done?

Didn't one company in this issue hire some of the competition's lawyers, who were found to have stolen proprietary info? Maybe someone can clarify that.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 4 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 09:44
CE Pro Magazine
April 2003
According to Sonos: D&M said in court many times that they have other methods for achieving similar functionality, without infringing Sonos patents. Apparently, that was part of the "egregiousness" claim by Sonos.

“[T]he infringing HEOS features are software-based and … D&M allegedly could have easily and readily implemented alternative synchronization and volume control features that would apparently avoid infringing Sonos’s patents.”
"CEPro: your website sucks!" - Fins
Post 5 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 10:49
Duct Tape
Super Member
November 2008
Damn,  I was thinking of using Heos in our installs.  I guess I dodged a bullet there.
Post 6 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 11:16
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
December 2001
The link that Kinghtwing refers to will only be on the thread index page until it's replaced by something else. It's a news cycle thing.

For those of you reading this after the link has been changed, it is, as of this moment, [Link:].
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 7 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 11:43
FunHouse Texas
Long Time Member
June 2013
I have avoided HEOS since this began - now there is no telling how this will affect the products already in service. SONOS could very well tell them to disengage the service and flip the switch off.
I AM responsible for typographical errors!
I have all the money I will ever need - unless i buy something..
Post 8 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 11:51
Craig Aguiar-Winter
Senior Member
September 2002
What kind of compensation would there be for owners if HEOS products that are killed, should that be the final result? Or would that be the kind of thing a class action lawsuit has to sort out?

My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
Post 9 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 12:02
Select Member
March 2003
Sonos forcing Sound United to "brick" Heos products would be in the courts for years before anything actually happens... Plus Sonos has made the claim that D&M could have worked around the patent issues, meaning that Sound United still potentially can work around them with a SW update.

Worrying about what those potential changes will do the functionality of Heos units would be like worrying about what Sonos will do to do their products in the next remote update... oh wait, we already do that.
I'm Not an engineer, but I play one on TV.
My handle is Tweety but I have nothing to do with the organization of similar name. I just had a really big head as a child so folks called me tweety bird.
Post 10 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 12:08
Rob Grabon
Founding Member
November 2001
A kill off would be awfully drastic, the damage is done.
Sonos want's their money per unit, they get that regardless of what HEOS does. Now Sonos wants fees and wilful damages too, rather than $40 a unit, that could add up to serious money and losses. And of course the bean counters look at when and where to right off losses.

HEOS has a lot invested and needs a streaming component. So they will most likely address changing the software, perhaps loosing features if they can't do it another way. Worst case, they'd walk away from the line, which would affect users future for software support and upgrades, but it will be cheaper to leave a couple engineers to support the line for a number of years rather than face a class action lawsuit.
Technology is cheap, Time is expensive.
Post 11 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 12:23
Mac Burks (39)
Elite Member
May 2007
HE...OS and SON...OS. Jeez...

Denon models should have been "Game 1" instead of "Play 1" and "Join Amp" instead of "Connect Amp".
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 12 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 13:17
Loyal Member
July 2009
it really makes me wonder who on gods green earth at D&M thought doing this was a great idea. I mean they even have the nomenclature (or did) to be a blatant rip off of sonos

there is nothing ilegal about monitoring patents. But what it seems is they monitored and viewed the patents and blatantly ripped them off.
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 13 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 13:32
Elite Member
June 2007
Im not surprised...

We just used Heos for the first time in an install last week after all the trouble Sonos has been causing. Of course this would happen...
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 14 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 13:55
Jeff at Zektor
Active Member
August 2009
VERY unlikely that they will brick units already deployed. The settlement would likely be to cease and desist from future sales and compensation for units already sold.

I doubt Sonos will agree to future licensing deal or make an offer that is too expensive for D&M making their product uncompetitive. Sonos will want to keep every competitor out of their area of the market for as long as possible.

My .02
Jeff Haynes
The Big Kahuna
Zektor Inc.
Post 15 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 14:54
Regular Member
October 2016
This part interests me...

"[P]rior to developing HEOS, D&M spent ‘a considerable amount of time, money, and energy’ studying Sonos’s technology, which included numerous detailed “teardowns” of Sonos’s products embodying the patented technology …."

When a user on a forum I frequented reported on his visit to the Sonos HQ, he noted that Sonos also had many, many products from competitors pulled apart in their labs. This is 100% standard practice and I honestly fail to see the issue with it... they can claim to be looking for patent issues / copying / avoiding copying... who cares, but I don't see it as an issue personally.

Not that I think Heos have a leg to stand on.
This industry is not getting cheaper and cheaper, we're simply convincing ourselves they we have to push the cheapest option to customers.
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