Your Universal Remote Control Center
RemoteCentral.com
Custom Installers' Lounge Forum - View Post
Previous section Next section Previous page Next page Up level
Up level
The following page was printed from RemoteCentral.com:

Login:
Pass:
 
 

Page 1 of 3
Topic:
SONOS vs HEOS , So what happens next?
This thread has 33 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 08:34
Knightwing
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
March 2007
292
Julie wrote an article in CE PRO, there should be a link above, it outlines the patent infringement case in which D&M has apparently LOST quite miserably.

So, what happens next?
Post 2 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 09:02
3PedalMINI
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
July 2009
7,367
im pretty sure this means they have to kill all HEOS's
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 3 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 09:40
highfigh
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2004
6,289
On February 26, 2018 at 09:02, 3PedalMINI said...
im pretty sure this means they have to kill all HEOS's

Or pay license fees and raise the price.

Sonos made some claims about Denon monitoring the patents while they developed HEOS- does it not make sense to do that? Why go through the trouble to develop something and find that it has already been done?

Didn't one company in this issue hire some of the competition's lawyers, who were found to have stolen proprietary info? Maybe someone can clarify that.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 4 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 09:44
juliejacobson
CE Pro Magazine
Joined:
Posts:
April 2003
3,005
According to Sonos: D&M said in court many times that they have other methods for achieving similar functionality, without infringing Sonos patents. Apparently, that was part of the "egregiousness" claim by Sonos.

“[T]he infringing HEOS features are software-based and … D&M allegedly could have easily and readily implemented alternative synchronization and volume control features that would apparently avoid infringing Sonos’s patents.”
"CEPro: your website sucks!" - Fins
www.cepro.com
[Link: twitter.com]
Post 5 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 10:49
Duct Tape
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
November 2008
4,766
Damn,  I was thinking of using Heos in our installs.  I guess I dodged a bullet there.
[Link: facebook.com]
Post 6 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 11:16
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
Joined:
Posts:
December 2001
27,920
The link that Kinghtwing refers to will only be on the thread index page until it's replaced by something else. It's a news cycle thing.

For those of you reading this after the link has been changed, it is, as of this moment, [Link: cepro.com].
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 7 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 11:43
FunHouse Texas
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2013
394
I have avoided HEOS since this began - now there is no telling how this will affect the products already in service. SONOS could very well tell them to disengage the service and flip the switch off.
I AM responsible for typographical errors!
"We are just like Geeksquad - if Geeksquad knew what they were doing."
Post 8 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 11:51
Craig Aguiar-Winter
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2002
1,296
What kind of compensation would there be for owners if HEOS products that are killed, should that be the final result? Or would that be the kind of thing a class action lawsuit has to sort out?

Craig
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
Post 9 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 12:02
tweetymp4
Select Member
Joined:
Posts:
March 2003
1,965
Sonos forcing Sound United to "brick" Heos products would be in the courts for years before anything actually happens... Plus Sonos has made the claim that D&M could have worked around the patent issues, meaning that Sound United still potentially can work around them with a SW update.

Worrying about what those potential changes will do the functionality of Heos units would be like worrying about what Sonos will do to do their products in the next remote update... oh wait, we already do that.
I'm Not an engineer, but I play one on TV.
My handle is Tweety but I have nothing to do with the organization of similar name. I just had a really big head as a child so folks called me tweety bird.
Post 10 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 12:08
Rob Grabon
Founding Member
Joined:
Posts:
November 2001
1,105
A kill off would be awfully drastic, the damage is done.
Sonos want's their money per unit, they get that regardless of what HEOS does. Now Sonos wants fees and wilful damages too, rather than $40 a unit, that could add up to serious money and losses. And of course the bean counters look at when and where to right off losses.

HEOS has a lot invested and needs a streaming component. So they will most likely address changing the software, perhaps loosing features if they can't do it another way. Worst case, they'd walk away from the line, which would affect users future for software support and upgrades, but it will be cheaper to leave a couple engineers to support the line for a number of years rather than face a class action lawsuit.
Technology is cheap, Time is expensive.
Post 11 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 12:23
Mac Burks (39)
Elite Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2007
16,452
HE...OS and SON...OS. Jeez...

Denon models should have been "Game 1" instead of "Play 1" and "Join Amp" instead of "Connect Amp".
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 12 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 13:17
3PedalMINI
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
July 2009
7,367
it really makes me wonder who on gods green earth at D&M thought doing this was a great idea. I mean they even have the nomenclature (or did) to be a blatant rip off of sonos

there is nothing ilegal about monitoring patents. But what it seems is they monitored and viewed the patents and blatantly ripped them off.
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 13 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 13:32
Fins
Elite Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2007
10,052
Im not surprised...

We just used Heos for the first time in an install last week after all the trouble Sonos has been causing. Of course this would happen...
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 14 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 13:55
Jeff at Zektor
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2009
531
VERY unlikely that they will brick units already deployed. The settlement would likely be to cease and desist from future sales and compensation for units already sold.

I doubt Sonos will agree to future licensing deal or make an offer that is too expensive for D&M making their product uncompetitive. Sonos will want to keep every competitor out of their area of the market for as long as possible.

My .02
Jeff Haynes
The Big Kahuna
Zektor Inc.
Post 15 made on Monday February 26, 2018 at 14:54
dunnersfella
Regular Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2016
95
This part interests me...

"[P]rior to developing HEOS, D&M spent ‘a considerable amount of time, money, and energy’ studying Sonos’s technology, which included numerous detailed “teardowns” of Sonos’s products embodying the patented technology …."

When a user on a forum I frequented reported on his visit to the Sonos HQ, he noted that Sonos also had many, many products from competitors pulled apart in their labs. This is 100% standard practice and I honestly fail to see the issue with it... they can claim to be looking for patent issues / copying / avoiding copying... who cares, but I don't see it as an issue personally.

Not that I think Heos have a leg to stand on.
My signature? It matches the one on the back of my credit card.
Page 1 of 3


Jump to


Protected Feature Before you can reply to a message...
You must first register for a Remote Central user account - it's fast and free! Or, if you already have an account, please login now.

Please read the following: Unsolicited commercial advertisements are absolutely not permitted on this forum. Other private buy & sell messages should be posted to our Marketplace. For information on how to advertise your service or product click here. Remote Central reserves the right to remove or modify any post that is deemed inappropriate.

Hosting Services by ipHouse