In the last 2-3 weeks we have probably wasted 20-30 man hours dealing with components that were bad out of the box. CD decks, modulators, remote controls, the list goes on. To make matters worse, we buy most of these items from Distributors that make demands concerning how they are returned (in the original box, all lit in place, no writing on either, etc).

It seems to be getting worse all the time and I just want to know if others out there are experiencing the same thing, and, do you have any methods of dealing with it.

Some brands are worse than others & I personally feel it would be fair to bill the manufacturers for lost time & profit, not that think it's ever going to happen. Perhaps if we were to band together somehow and create a "Manufacturers Hall Of Shame" website or something, maybe they'd start to give a d_m_!

Please let me know your feelings on this.

Brian E.

If a bad unit has ever been ever shipped, it has found it's way into my hands.

10% of the stuff I get is bad out of the box. That's one reason why I'll never install Onkyo again- they have the highest ratio of bad vs good with me!

We had a shippment from Panasonic last Christmas, 8 TV's delivered 6 busted all to Hell, including the boxes. We're still dealing with that!!!

Then they cut us off from being Direct.....

No Love left for them!!!!!

Panasonic, like Sony, is mega-giant worthless when it comes to dealing with anyone other than Circuit City, Sears and Best Buy. You should have kicked them to the curb before they had a chance to "cut you off."

I had a 50" LG (Goldstar) LCD display come out of the box with wierd problems a few weeks ago. I guess I get my share, but it's definately less than 10%. I bet the insurance companies track this. I wonder what the expected DOA rate truly is?

My worst BOB experience has been with Hitachi. And the sorry a** distributor.

Apparently the Hitachi policy paralells the Samsung policy.

If the unit gets to you via distribution, you MUST contact a regional repair center. Under no circumstance can the unit be returned to the distributor.

Basically, you're just plain screwed.

I'll agree with the above post about being a nobody, if you're not CC, BB, Sear's or a member of some big dog buying group.

Most major manufacturers have little use for the custom industry. We may generate a hugh amount of product sales, but they just don't see it.

How does the manufacturer Know where the product is going? I thought it was up to the distributers to divide the product they get. Lets not forget that the equipment has to be shipped and handled by numerous people (most who are overworked and under paid) before gets to us. I've yet to see a plasma arrive with the special anti-tilt shipping lable the color it should be. The manufacturers could research their packaging a little more though. I've seen cardboard protecting $10,000 Tv's instead of stryofoam that didn't do squat when the trucking co. dropped it at their wharehouse. They actually sent it to us!

I've been pretty lucky with most stuff so far. Had one Panasonic DVD player with a defective drawer mechanism, and a couple of bad Pronto RFX units last year, but that's about it.

Dawn

It seems like we have quite a bit of Pioneer Elite product going bad on us. A receiver and a DVD player on the same job, there were a few other issues going on so that ended up being a nightmare. Plus all the extra hours trying to troubleshoot the system. There have also been a few other P.E. receivers that have been bad right out of the box on us.

We also had an Onkyo receiver and DVD player go bad on the same job on us. I got pretty lucky figuring those out, it still killed a lot of time. Fun fun fun!! We use P.E. a lot more than Onkyo as far as audio goes.

We have been really luck with displays. We use mostly Fujitsu an P.E., I have only had one bad P.E. display this year.

My boss deals with all the returns, but there is a growing stack of equipment in the corner. I am glad I do not have to deal with that headache yet.

Roddy

First things first. I work in distribution (gasp!)

It's the responsibility of the person purchasing the product to know what the policy regarding DOA's is going to be. It's the resposibility of the seller (that's me) to communicate that policy to you, the buyer. If you buy a gazillion dollar device and the manufacturer requires service rather then exchange, and I didn't communicate that to you, I'm doing you a disservice at the very least. It is important that you ask, however.

Our policy is to emulate what the manufacturer does. If brand A says "exchange doa within 90 days", we'll do that. If brand P (hypothetical brands, here...) says that all products they make don't break, therefore, you must have DOA's serviced, we hold that line.

Does this stink? You bet.

Several observations. Margins matter to every step in the chain, from manufacturer to distribution to installer to end user. Service costs margin. Manufacturers don't pay us or you to deal with service issues.

Second, manufacturers don't give us free boxes, manuals, remotes as extras. They Sell them to us, with the product. We sell them to you. It's in your best interest to make sure you like your product before you lose the manual, boxes, remotes, etc. If we could afford to cover those costs, you would complain that our pricing was too high, and you would buy from the next cheap distributor who bought an ad in some magazine or another.

I recommend, and am roundly jeered, that you as an installer burn in equipment before you bring it to your customer's site. If you discover DOA product, you can get the problem rectified before the homeowner asks when the job is going to be done....

With the market getting increasingly driven to the idea of zero as the best selling price (see DVD pricing for example), are we doing the right thing by continuing to purchase $62 cost DVD players?

Additional random thoughts will appear as they occur.

Fred,

You're right...

Unfortunately, most distribution firms NEVER think of posting the various policies, or passing that info along to THEIR customer base. In fact several that I've dealt with in the past, had no idea of what the policies were themselves, or they at least claimed ignorance.

And you're right about "burning in" a new item. As soon as it hits the door, as a matter of fact.

BUT, this can create an issue with regards to the customer. Some customers are taken back by the idea of "their" new item being "used". Now they think this should be a "open box special" like they see at CC,BB and the like. Yes, we can generally work this out by explaining why it's done this way. But wouldn't it be so much better if the manufacturer didn't create this problem in the first place?

Just being a PIA.....lol

The bigger problem as I see it is the companies that have little to no tech support. Isn't it fun to sit on hold for 30 minutes trying to get an answer?

I hate this too! I call for help, wait on hold, then talk to someone that doesn't know as much as I do. I have to jump through their hoops before they turn me over to someone that can actually help, resulting in a 60 minute phone call more often than not. Maybe I've just been unlucky, but I haven't run into a client yet that wan'ts to pay me for that hour.

Slammer, that's the same problem i had with Onkyo... It's like they refuse to stand behind their products.

The disributor refused to take back a DOA DV SP-800, and it took SIX MONTHS for the GD thing to be fixed- and that's after it was sent to THREE different Onkyo Certified repair centers, two of which were not equipped to service the &^%$^&* thing.

My customer and I were almost ready to take the distributor to small claims court to get his money back, it was so bad.

I know I'm really an electrical contractor, and not an HT/custom installer, but I've done my share of pre-wires, retro-wires, and plain ol' come-hook-up-my-system work, as well as having to sort out someone elses 10-speaker-pair prewires.

I consider myself an installer, but time and time again, I'm glad I'm not a retailer. There are plenty of people who sell equipment either by the high-end, make-an-appointment method, or the cheaper-than-the-next-guy chain stores.

I'll offer my advice in selecting equipment if it's wanted, or just do what I can with whatever the customer already has. Either way, I'm happy to install other people's stuff. The headaches that I read about here convince me of that.


Now that I've said all that, when dealing with a distributor, I would look at my position as that of a customer. If I buy a piece of gear that's bad out of the box, I would expect a replacement that day. I know my customer would.

How can they insist on everything being in pristine condition, paper in particular, and then insist on treating a BOB as a warranty issue? If the piece breaks down next month, shouldn't the warranty card have been sent in by then?

As an end user, if I buy something from a local retailer or discounter, and it's defective when I open it, I expect it to be replaced on the spot. That I paid MSRP and it was brought to my house certainly doesn't negate that.

If the answer's "No, we must send it to the service department first!", I say "Fine. Un-do the sale, give me back my money, and I'll go to "the other" store!" It's my money, and I don't expect to lay it out today for gear in a month or two.

As an dealer/installer, I agree with the customer, and if I'm not going to keep a supply of stock for these times, I expect my distributor to. Get the customer up and running; the hassles of defects should be handled "in the background".

If my distributors can't accomodate the problems with faulty gear in a timely manner, then I'm dealing with the wrong people. I know that's how my customer will feel when I say "Gee, it doesn't work. I'll take care of it . . . within 90 days."

I know it's easy for me to say these things, when I haven't really experienced like you guys, but I certainly have had electrical equipment not work when I connected it. However, I've never had a store or supply house say "Call the manufacturer."

We pro's are customers, too. We need to stand up to, not shoddy equipment, but shoddy business practices, just as our customers do. I've told wholesalers right to their faces: "There are others who would like my business; show me you want to keep it."

The distributors are more likely to pass the pressure up the food chain when they're more highly motivated. Ever heard the saying "The queaky wheel gets the grease"? We need to squeak louder! Mice of the world, unite!

Seriously, we'll have to put up with it until we refuse to any longer. Sure, as in any business, we have our share of hassles. However, that doesn't mean we should have to shoulder all of them. We're customers, too. Be more demanding.

Larry
www.fineelectricco.com

Okay then.

Here's another fine example of how it's NOT to be handled.

A new, not used, never sold at retail Sharp Z9000U Projector as my example.

The projector unfortunately didn't get the typical "open the box, set it up, and burn it in" that I always do. As is typical in this business, the item sat on the shelf until the job was ready, which in this case was nearly 13 months. Yeah, I know. You'd think that in 13 months, someone (guess who) would have remembered to check that projector out. But nooooo, it didn't happen.

Anyway. Time for final on the job. Projector has a little problem. Call Sharp (you guys listening?), and get some total dipshit that's reading from the latest issue of "customer service for the dummy*".

I get three differnet numbers of so called service centers. I dutifully call each one, only to find that NONE of them service projectors. All are in the business machines sales and service side of the business. Meaning they sell FAX MACHINES, not projectors.

Bottom line? Here I am, nearly 20 months later, with a projector, that I have a nice little vacation plan invested in, that doesn't work.

Will I sell any other Sharp products?

LOL...yup, right.....

* There Must be a book like this. How else can these people continue to dispense such unadulerated idiocy?

Sharp hasn't been the same since it moved it's manufacturing facility to Mexico about five years ago. The best way to get looked after with any distributor is to have a strong relationship with your rep. That usually comes with a history of purchasing volume (his commission). Sadly , that's the reality in many scenarios. The concept is,, you support his product, he looks after your service related issues, get's an R.A.# for you promptly, and you get the thing turned around quickly.