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| Topic: | Onsite: Phone line over RG6 or what about using 1 pair of existing Ethernet? This thread has 38 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30. |
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| Post 16 made on Saturday January 21, 2012 at 20:46 |
Ernie Gilman Yes, That Ernie! |
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Perhaps it's accurate to say that the distance over which you will get gigabit performance is less with CAT5 than with other cabling. The idea of "not be an issue or not possible" is often assigned to such things as running satellite signal over RG59, or speaker signals over phone wire. It's possible, but performance is less than when using the exactly proper stuff.
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A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw |
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| OP | Post 17 made on Saturday January 21, 2012 at 21:55 |
william david design Super Member |
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On January 21, 2012 at 13:26, Ernie Gilman said...
That's wall wart, poetic techie for what one of those does to the appearance of a wall.
You can definitely use RG6 for phone lines, because phone signals are really stupid and don't care about much of anything, conductor-wise, except for not being connected to ground anywhere.
It will be difficult to keep it from looking real stupid, though, because you'll need to adapt from the wire style of RG6 to simple two conductors. I'd go with crimp-on RCAs, just to keep anyone from thinking there's RF on the wire, to chassis-mount solder or screw terminal jacks that you take wires off of.
If your email address is in your profile, I'm sending you my reference doc on how to use two pairs for network and one or two pairs for other stuff. That's also completely viable and even looks right if done that way during initial installation, but yes, it won't work with gigabit networks. Ernie, thanks. I got your email. Been working hard on a couple of jobs the last two days and will take a peek in the morning...
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Defectus tuus consilium carpere discrimen mihi non constituit. |
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| Post 18 made on Sunday January 22, 2012 at 09:56 |
rmalbers Founding Member |
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Posts: | October 2001
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On January 21, 2012 at 18:45, tweeterguy said...
In this case, nothing other than dropping that node and any other it's connected to to 100 megabit. Nothing detrimental will occur as both ends of the cables pin 7 and 8 will be broken out. So unless they need gigabit interconnectivity between this node or even more doubtfully a gigabit connection to the WAN, this is the way to go; using pair 4 for the telephone. I guess all I was trying to get at, it's the same issue as wiring anything incorrectly, someday it's going to come back and get you (actually your customer). I guess one thing you could do is label the wallplates with a warning sticker stating that this connection from x to y is not wired right, if that's done I see less of a problem with it. There are CAT5 devices besides GB that use those pairs.
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| OP | Post 19 made on Sunday January 22, 2012 at 10:47 |
william david design Super Member |
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On January 22, 2012 at 09:56, rmalbers said...
I guess all I was trying to get at, it's the same issue as wiring anything incorrectly, someday it's going to come back and get you (actually your customer). I guess one thing you could do is label the wallplates with a warning sticker stating that this connection from x to y is not wired right, if that's done I see less of a problem with it. There are CAT5 devices besides GB that use those pairs. I will tag the RG6 appropriately. It's too bad more homeowners don't hire a low voltage consultant while designing their house.
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Defectus tuus consilium carpere discrimen mihi non constituit. |
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| Post 20 made on Sunday January 22, 2012 at 11:16 |
rmalbers Founding Member |
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The incorrect network wiring thing has always kind of bothered me after some of the stuff I heard about. I didn't really think people would do it but several years ago in the 10 Mb days I knew an very small homebuilder who was using unused pairs for phone or low audio, whatever he felt like and was wiring up whole 3 bedroom houses with finished basements like that, I couldn't believe it. I really feel sorry for the home owners who end up stuff like that. My comments were/are kind of directed more to others who might see this thread and think it's an ok thing to do, you know.
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| OP | Post 21 made on Sunday January 22, 2012 at 21:45 |
william david design Super Member |
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On January 22, 2012 at 11:16, rmalbers said...
The incorrect network wiring thing has always kind of bothered me after some of the stuff I heard about. I didn't really think people would do it but several years ago in the 10 Mb days I knew an very small homebuilder who was using unused pairs for phone or low audio, whatever he felt like and was wiring up whole 3 bedroom houses with finished basements like that, I couldn't believe it. I really feel sorry for the home owners who end up stuff like that. My comments were/are kind of directed more to others who might see this thread and think it's an ok thing to do, you know. I got it. I used the RG6 and now have a low hum on the phones. If I can't get rid of the hum I might have to pull a pair off the Ethernet.
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Defectus tuus consilium carpere discrimen mihi non constituit. |
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| Post 22 made on Monday January 23, 2012 at 14:31 |
Ernie Gilman Yes, That Ernie! |
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On January 22, 2012 at 11:16, rmalbers said...
The incorrect network wiring thing has always kind of bothered me.... [he] was wiring up whole 3 bedroom houses with finished basements like that, I couldn't believe it. I really feel sorry for the home owners who end up stuff like that. My comments were/are kind of directed more to others who might see this thread and think it's an ok thing to do, you know. In the late nineties, the late nineties, I was called on to add satellite to a new spec home that had been built into the side of a hill. The driveway led up to the garage; stairs led up to three stories above that. The garage was at one end of the house. The idiot who designed the house cabling had run three RG-59 (in the late nineties!), one to each floor; on each floor, each cable daisy-chained through two-way splitters so that the signal at the far end was 12 dB lower than at the garage end of the house. I changed the design so the cable signal was boosted like 20 dB before it went up to the floors, and then drop taps dropped signal across each floor. But they wanted satellite, too. I was able to diplex satellite to the end of the house closest to the garage, but that was it. Idiots.
Last edited by Ernie Gilman on January 23, 2012 14:45.
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A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw |
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| Post 23 made on Monday January 23, 2012 at 18:48 |
tweeterguy Loyal Member |
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On January 22, 2012 at 21:45, william david design said...
I used the RG6 and now have a low hum on the phones. Shocking! :-) You never answered if you need gigabit connectivity on the LAN for this node or a gigabit connection to the WAN. If the answer is NO and NO then the correct path given your circumstance (assuming you can't/won't pull another cable) is to use the existing Brown pair! What wreaks of a hack more (since people here are all worried about the next tech coming in after you)? Breaking out a CAT5e to get the job done under the circumstances or creating an EG science project in the clients home with RG-6, adaptors, connectors, solder, fancy tags, ughhhh (I'd kill an employee if I happened upon that)? Come on you know the answer to this! :-)
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| Post 24 made on Monday January 23, 2012 at 20:27 |
simoneales Select Member |
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You didn't create this problem and the homeowner knows this if i'm reading correctly. I'd simply explain to the customer about that point being 10/100 and the ramifications which could be non existent in their situation and split off the Cat-5. My guess is that the customer will be happy with the end result.
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I guarantee I'll tell you the truth and I guarantee I'll tell you what you need to know but I can't guarantee that I'll be telling you anything you want to hear. |
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| OP | Post 25 made on Monday January 23, 2012 at 22:24 |
william david design Super Member |
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On January 23, 2012 at 20:27, simoneales said...
You didn't create this problem and the homeowner knows this if i'm reading correctly. I'd simply explain to the customer about that point being 10/100 and the ramifications which could be non existent in their situation and split off the Cat-5. My guess is that the customer will be happy with the end result. Well right now the Internet speeds are shxt because they have DSL so the Cat5 phone/Internet solution may not work right now. My idea is to have the customer switch to broadband and then skim off the brown pairs for telephone and nix the RG6 solution in the hopes that RG6 for phone+ Cat5 DSL is much slower Internet than a Cat5 combined phone Ethernet solution...
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Defectus tuus consilium carpere discrimen mihi non constituit. |
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| Post 26 made on Tuesday August 5, 2014 at 14:04 |
netarc Senior Member |
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On January 21, 2012 at 13:26, Ernie Gilman said...
If your email address is in your profile, I'm sending you my reference doc on how to use two pairs for network and one or two pairs for other stuff. That's also completely viable and even looks right if done that way during initial installation, but yes, it won't work with gigabit networks. Ernie, could I request a copy if this doc as well, please? info -at- thecleartech.com - thank you!
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| Post 27 made on Tuesday August 5, 2014 at 15:23 |
Ernie Gilman Yes, That Ernie! |
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Posts: | December 2001
30,104 |
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Gee, I guess you can't! I cannot find such a document, though I remember it. Basically it showed how to use blue and orange for phone, and green and brown for data. It had a couple of pictures instead of my usual long verbal descriptions.
I'll keep looking. The only real key is to decide on a pinout, write it down, and always do the same thing. Funny I can't find mine!
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A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw |
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| Post 28 made on Tuesday August 5, 2014 at 15:26 |
Duct Tape Loyal Member |
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pins 1,2,3, and 6 on an rj45 are used for 10/100 networks.
so if you use the orange and green pairs for 1,2,3, and 6, that will leave the blue and brown pairs for telephone lines.
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| Post 29 made on Tuesday August 5, 2014 at 19:13 |
fcwilt Senior Member |
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Posts: | September 2003
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Or figure out where the hum is coming from - a POTS line is usually pretty tolerant of noise.
Or put in a wireless phone.
I wouldn't use a pair from the network cable UNLESS it was only going to affect this one location and the computer equipment there was clearly not going to benefit from gigabit speeds.
And if I did I would CLEARLY mark the jack as to what had been done.
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Regards, Frederick C. Wilt |
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| Post 30 made on Tuesday August 5, 2014 at 20:07 |
netarc Senior Member |
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So basically instead of punching down the brown pair into the cat5 jack, run these up to the telco jack, eh?
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