I was just wondering what is everyones opinion on this. just by reading some of these threads you can tell who is in the industry and who isn't. maybe we should start a custom hobbyists forum, so that the rest of us can just really learn from each other and the hobbyists can learn from themselves. these are the people that buy from either a retail store or even a high end store but don't want to pay the price for installation. and in the long run after they realize they are over their heads , then they call us. opinions please. thanks

It sounds exclusionist. I see the "we" and the "they". I'm a professional, not a hobbyist, and I'm here to further my professional goals. I get a great deal out of this forum, and try to give some back.

I've dealt with hobbyists for a long, long time, having run a retail high end store chain for more than a decade. During that time I've had my opinion sought and my help requested a zillion times by people who did not buy from me but valued my skills. That was one of the things that made me make the jump to doing soley custom, a career move that has done great things for my peace of mind and business health.

I knew then and know now that hobbyists were not the people that put bread on my table. Hobbyists place a lot of value on knowing the intracacies of their systems so that they are the experts, not the people that sell them the bits & pieces to make it go. I have never made a living selling things to people who strive to know everything I know. I make a nice living selling to people who are too busy or not inclined to learn what it takes to put a nice system together, but value the end product. You should too, and don't worry about individuals that want what you have (information and skills) and are not interested in hiring you to serve it out for them.

Does this strike a cord with you?

That being said, this is not a marketplace where you or I are going to make a living. This is a forum for the exchange of information that applies to our industry and their hobby. If someone who is clearly a hobbyist has a question I can answer and they ask nicely, I'm happy to answer (if I have time). They'll never buy anything from me no matter what, but I am able to do them a favor, strut my stuff, and look like the well-mannered professional I aspire to be. What could be better than knowing something cold and being able to help someone as a result, with no cost to you?

You asked for my opinion, and you have it. I'll be watching this thread with great interest.

This message was edited by Theaterworks on 02/13/04 17:05.

Guys,

I don't often post to this forum but do look at it and roll my eyes at some of the questions you guys are asked; soomtimes you do a good job at keeping your cool.

My 2C's: As a hobbyist I do my best to obtain all the information I need from sources such as general internet learn sites and magazines. Granted this isn't the same as paying for a custom installer who, no doubt, will know and implement more than a few tweaks to my current system if he came round to my place. The reality is that not everyone can afford a custom installer.

I NEVER buy gear from Future Shop(Canadian BB) and the major retailers. I ALWAYS buy from smaller specialised stores. For one thing you get better service and better knowledge. AND you get my dollars for the gear without the custom work which, more than a few people on here say, you only get a pittance for (if that's the case, maybe I'm doing you a favour?). Although I have been into a few higher end stores and walked out because of the snobbish arrogance of some of the sales staff.

There's so much to say on this, but if you want to, go ahead and start a Hobbyist forum. Personally I'd have thought that you would want "newbies" to see just how much knowledge you have so maybe, just maybe, they will come to you for gear instead of the big box stores. You've got my vote; as long as you don't own Arrogance Audio Inc.

J

Amen Theaterworks... sounds like our careers took similar paths. Sometimes the hobbyist absolutely p----s me off. When they call me to jobs with great promises of work and ultimately have done no more than waste my time and pick my brain... I get a little chapped. When thay finally do call you me it is often only to beat a price on a plasma or other piece they found at Joe's Non-Existant Stock Whore Priced Internet Site.

A lot of the guys here though, make no bones about the fact that they are doing it themselves and they ask a question. Sometimes I answer if I feel I can really help (or sometimes when I have a sarcastic remark to make). They certainly aren't going to hurt our industry with this approach... some guy in Texas isn't going to pack me up on a plane and have me show him how to wire a volume control.

Even if such a forum were created it would not keep the hobbyist away from our "sacred" little area. Integration Pros had a nice site going but it didn't get the kind of traffic or diversity of topics that come here. I say keep it as is... no delineation. If you don't want to read or post a reply... don't.

On 02/13/04 01:11, sped30 said...



Can you really tell sped30?
I openly admit I have been taught many things from many a keen hobbyist
Djy(sorry for name dropping) is a fine example of a well educated and informed hobbyist who would pay well for a good product/service but if it was well within his own capable hands then he would do it himself. as I bet you have on many different things
His pronto programming is better than a few pro’s I know AND he can calibrate projectors better than most too.

15 posts and you want a separatist revolution?

Keen hobbyists don’t often want our services but it can be very satisfying when "the know it all, have a go hero types" get stuck and then ask for help (not you djy!)!

Most keen hobbyists (doesn’t hobbyist sound like someone from LOTR!)Show off there systems to people which sparks sales (more work for us!) there friends often know that the guy is a know it all and want to get a man in to set it up properly.

I make my living installing but I LOVE the gear it isn’t just a job to me if I didn’t do this for a living I would be a keen hobbyist.

Every job has its fair share of time wasters, arrogant know it alls, brain pickers etc.
It IS getting harder to rise above it but if you’re good at your job you find ways round it.
Is it fair?...NO
Is this a good place to vent your spleen?..
Yes at least people can see the genuine emotions built up because we are passionate about what we do.
Should we have a private men’s club with shiny password badges to keep the riff raff out ?..
No they trust us more "because "we give freely "because" those of us who are nice people to deal with have little to fear.
Yes I get customer that I run through the install with the sparky only to be cut out of the loop..That type of customer would have always screwed me at some point, better now than later!!
Do I get annoyed? Of course I do that’s why forums like this exist, not just for tech spec but for sympathy and customer strategy and experiene

Theaterworks said

I make a nice living selling to people who are too busy or not inclined to learn what it takes to put a nice system together, but value the end product. You should too, and don't worry about individuals that want what you have (information and skills) and are not interested in hiring you to serve it out for them.

Does this strike a cord with you?

I couldn’t agree with you more

Forums like these point those very people in the right direction
often it shows them its far more difficult than they first thought so they better had get some one in to sort it out.



This message was edited by wolf359 on 02/13/04 19:05.

Thanks for the quote, you make me blush. It's Theaterworks, by the way. Theatreworks is a stage lighting company out of Branson, MO.

"Call me anything you like, just spell my name right." :-)

Sorry point taken! us Brits spell theater as theatre meter as metre, center as centre and color as colour but as its your name theres no excuse! before writing my reply i checked out sped30 other posts and found them both informative and sympathetic


"if you have been in the business for 20 years then you should have never asked that question. going through a middle man (buying group) costs you profits. If you are a distributer of a product then you get products at cost. Being a distributer is like applying for a personal credit card, you need some personal credit background and also your company background.within the first 3 years trying to start a new business, you try to get dealer backing and make profits on parts by being a dealer. then you expand on product lines. These are the basics of the custom installation business. if you haven't learned that by now after 20 years, then get out of the business"

and heres another


"i don't want to be rude but before you take on jobs like this which you are saying is over your head you should work for a company where you can learn these skills. i get jobs like this all the time where i have to fix other peoples mistakes and it gives this industry a very bad impression.do us all a favor, refer your client to a real a/v company"


Feel the love ! lets round these darn hobbyists up an burn em lol

Are you kidding me Sped30 I am the one you wrote this email about First off read my reply to you from my initial question. Living in one of the richest area in the world, Santa Barbara I have never seen attitude like you have around here. Hobbyist makes this industry! Comments like this one you made to me “you are saying is over your head you should work for a company where you can learn these skills. I get jobs like this all the time where I have to fix other peoples mistakes and it gives this industry a very bad impression. do us all a favor, refer your client to a real a/v companygant comment that you made to me “ How do you learn if you don’t get over your head then solve it and figure it out. You are not as great as you propose I have seen great they don’t have attitudes like your other then that you are a waist of mine time james

What a beautifully wrought piece of prose.

Waz dat you say?

What is going on here???? 15 Posts and your ready to restructure the message forums here on RC? I take it from your tone that you are putting yourself in the "Professional" category....... Thats all fine and adandy, but from some of your posts, I would doubt that. You have NOT shown a very professional attitude on several instances as documented already in this post, and have show a medeocure knowldge level at best.

As for our other new addition... James... Chill out dude.... You seem hell bent on being "Professional" as well... Not doing a very good job of showing it so far......


When it comes down to it, Hobbyists sometimes get things done in ways I wouldnt even think of..... We can lean from them a lot of times as well. Closing your ears (Or eyes) to that is limiting your education quite a bit.

If you intend to spend some time in the "Professional" forum, please act it.....

If Hobbyists bother you... DOnt respond to those posts... No one is forcing anyone to read or respond to anything in this forum.

But as a "hobbyist", do I have to?

I don't know about you, djy, but I consider myself to be both, so how am I supposed to act?

Maybe I have to correct my OWN behavior. :-D

Larry

Write ten pages on the composition of a carbon film resistor?

see here lets not go off topic and act like professionals!!

Would you settle for the resistor color coding?

Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly.