Shoe:
Upon your suggestion, I re-read the post by Lumpy. After re-readin it, I see why he may have riled up a few guys. People who get free advice shouldn't look the gift horse in the mouth.

Still, it doesn't bother me when an amateur asks for advice on this forum. It's often interesting to see how other installers would address the design challenge or solve a problem.

But that is it, many people here help when an amateur asks. And they also read and help in some of the other forums on this site. It was Lumpy’s response that annoyed them.

Bastard!

Hi All,

Read most of your replies.

A few comments.

There was a "wink" smiley after the "166 views.. 1
reply! ;-)"

A gentle rib as to say "Come on guys, some input
PLEASE".

I don't have all the answers but was rather hoping as
a group we could work together to make sure I'm
preparing my new place enough. I wasn't asking for
your first born.

My attitude only came out after some un-called for
comments were made.

It's simple as this, if you don't want to help, don't
have time to help, don't want to help unless your
getting paid, then why bother visiting a "FREE"
& "PUBLIC" board?

Is it so you can flex your chest and belittle someone
for asking for guidance?

AVDude,

Your wrong, in my profession I give FREE advice on a
daily basis which saves peoples liveS. Sure, I'm in
sales but ultimately my "FREE" advice is what brings
in the customers. You got to give a little to make a
little. Maybe you can learn something from that.

Stew,

Thanks for your comments. I often laugh at how
people "READ"into peoples attitudes from what they
type. E-mail is no way to judge a persons character.
We lose so much from E-Mails such as facial
expressions, tone of voice, ect. All these help build
an image of someones attitude and character.

I'm an easy going guy, looking for advice.

Maybe I have $10 000 or so to play with and needed an
installer. Do you think I would hire any of the people
in here after their little flame attack on me? I think
not.

Like I said, now I know why I don't visit this
section. Don't plan on me coming back if this is how
you "PROFESIONALS" want to treat potential customers.
Maybe that's why most of them don't post their company
contact info.

Lumpy

Lumpy, I've been trying to think of a suitable response to your post. If anybody ever did take money from you I think it would be a lot harder to work with you than it is now. I am going to do something exceedingly rare. You're fired as a customer. Take your $10,000 and take your business elsewhere.

oops...triple post...DAMN COMPUTER! ;0)

oops...double post

Wow, I never even read this post 'til now. All I have to say is this...Lumpy, you are WAY out of line and making a complete ass out of yourself. AVDude never refused to help you. He just said that your question wasn't "So basic" and was at the level of a major prewire. You got your help, now go find yourself some gratitude. It's right between "Please" and "Thank You" in the common courtesy closet.
As far as you last comment goes I have an answer for that as well. In our eyes, you are not a "Potential Customer" You are a "Do-it-yourselfer". We don't have anything against that, and don't mind helping out with the basics. But we aren't going to walk you through a whole job. By the way...where'd you get the name Lumpy? Are you a little heavy or did you get hit in the head a few times? By the way, that wasn't an insult...just a poor attempt at humor. Oh yeah, $10,000 is nothing for as...you should have said $100,000 if you wanted to get a rise out of someone.

Oh well, as I sit here freshly recovering from my surgical decision to have no more children that I can't spend near enough time with due to the ungodly hours I spend doing this (that's right... snip, snip)... I felt I should chime in.

I've recently had a glut of "customers" who've lured me into the jobs they were doing for the sole purpose of sucking as much info as possible out of me for their DIY projects... the early promises turn to crap as soon as you start saying the word "contract" (by the way... that is the quickest word to use if you want to get rid of a DIYer... practice it... contract). In the long run, though, it really doesn't matter that someone wants to spend the massive amount of time and effort to do it themselves... ok with the fact that it actually costs them more to do that than to hire a pro... or that the mistakes in wiring, poor aesthetics, etc. that are so common in these jobs don't bother them. There are enough people who don't have enough of this free time and will gladly pay us. Thats why its OK to help the guy who just wants to learn and enjoys the feeling of accomplishment he gets from completing it solo... he's no threat to our business. At least Lumpy posts here publicly instead of lying to us while he gets this info.

The funniest sidelight to this is that a few of these "customers" end up with a marginally succesful project and like this so much that they've now gotten into the biz. They just come up with a catchy name, pay for a business license and set up an account at the local greedy distributor who will sell and quote prices to anyone with a pulse. Even this doesn't get a rise out of me if they're just doing it to get the best prices for their DIY... its when they start seeking customers without becoming registered contractors, which in my state is illegal but hard to enforce. When their desperation reaches the good clients and erodes profit margins for we that feed our families by doing this; thats when I start cussin and flippin middle fingers. I also, from now on, am going to turn them in so they can eat a little fine and get on the watch list... then they can spend the thousands and thousands of dollars it takes and hire the journeymen they need to be legal. Once they are "real" competition with real bills I'll never bitch about losing a job to them.

By the way... it's now officially OK to refer to me as "numbnuts"

you people make me sick, this is not a place for jabs at our fellow professional installers, but rather a place for those that just might not know as much as we to get a little help. It's not as if Lumpy was asking him to come out and do the house for free, no rather he asked a couple simple questions, and the one replier actually answered them (in long form, but nevertheless he answered them). It's people like you that make this industry the expensive joke it is today. How many of you have ever walked the floor at CES or CEDIA, maybe even INfoComm, you know what those shows have in common, that will continue to make our lives living hells,they are all chuck-full of CI doorslammers or in laymans terms GLORIFIED STEREO SALESMAN. The people that walk around thinking that they are finally within their element surrounding themselves with more of the same arrogant stereo dorks that replied negativly to Lumpy's questions. All of you need to stop this insanity and remember the basics, with people like Lumpy asking free advice questions, many of you would be mopping floors.

Dave, I don't think anybody was giving Lumpy crap for his question. We, or at least I, was jabbing at him for not apreciating the info he was given in his first response and his complaining that nobody else responded. If we think the answer is a good one why do we need to suggest something else? I thought he was just arrogant. Now, as far as trading "Job knowledge" goes, all of us here do help others out. Do a search on my name, Shoe's name, rhm9's name, or AVDude's name; and you'll see we do help people a lot. We just refuse to help certain people that we think don't appreciate it. We have every right to not help someone we think is an ass.

Wow,

A new person to flame on... VioletDAV.

Don't you mean "withOUT people like Lumpy asking questions we'd be mopping floors?

And the shows you speak of ARE the places where we arrogant stereo dorks surround ourselves with each other... and we ARE glorified Stereo salespeople... using this industry to feed families... the same way you do what you do to bring home the bacon. We have taken it to the next level because its what we live and breathe and we've found that we can have fun and have a job at the same time.

As far as the industry being an expensive joke... read the MANY posts about how this business is being overrun by the new "competition". How the margins have eroded because so many new "Glorified Stereo Salespeople" want to make this their way of making a living. Any client has a right to do a project him/herself... Home Depot wouldn't be around if it weren't for this. And it is easily noted that with all of the people building decks, wiring their own electrical, doing their own plumbing, doing their own sheetrock, etc, etc.... that the yellow pages are full of these kind of contractors who are obviously still in business. Same goes here... there is enough business around that these people are no threat to our existence. Thats why we spend time here and why guys, ESPECIALLY AVdude, give DIYers the kind of advice that he does. I've sat across a beer filled table at CEDIA with this guy and he really knows his s--t! When advice comes for free from him or the many people like him that post here... f-----g appreciate it! Don't whine like its some god given right to suck knowledge or talk about us making you sick. These posts are voluntary and you can find a s--tload of good free info simply by doing a search. Daniel has put up an amazing site to be used as a resource for everyone. As a pro, I learn a lot from here... my fellow arrogant stereo dorks have definitely helped me further my business and knowledge base. It just inflames us when people treat us like we shouldn't make any dinero for what we do or chibe on us for trying to keep some degree of profitability.

I recently tried to find some minor legal advice on the net for suing a plumber and how free do you think that advice was? It was non-existant... pay us up front or go away... now theres a clique that keeps to itself and doesn't freely bastardize its own element!

Damn,

I was hoping for some great flameback but we seem to have put this one to bed!

Ok, you're just gonna feel a quick sting!!

rhm9, sound familiar??

You'll be back to normal in a few days.

Later

Frozen Peas.