Some questions for the Pro's. Please be patient, this
is all new to me.

New place is being built, just got permission to go on
site to do some wiring (Condo regs and bullsh#t).

I want to do some extra pre-wiring. Not quite sure
what all I want to do but would like to possibly have
the Cat5/6 there for expansion.

First off i'm planning on running extra RG6 to all the
bedrooms. Should 2 runs per room be enough?

Next the Cat5/6 to each room. I want to be able to do
a basic network and possibly some home audio control.
Would 2 runs per room be adequate?

Where should I run the Cat 5/6 to? I can't really add
extra electrical boxes so I was thinking of running it
to the phone jack boxes?

I did a search for pre-wiring and found a few topics,
seems like 12" away from electical lines is the norm?

I'm also looking at running a hardwired Xantech IR
system, will the Cat 5/6 do?

Like I said, very new, limited time to do this so some
guidance would be great..

Lumpy


This message was edited by Lumpy on 10/05/03 21:56.

Just my 2 cents, but the goal should be to try to anticipate future needs. Its a lot easier to put wiring in before the drywall goes up.

I highly recommend that you do all the RG6 and Cat5/6 wiring as home runs to a central structured wiring location. We built a new house a little over a year ago, and probably went overboard, but we ended up with two full sized Home Director connection centers mounted atop one another to hold everything including a Panasonic phone system.

Think about what you would use the RG6 for. If you just want to send cable/whole house video to each room then one RG6 near where you might want to put a TV is ok. If you want to send video from the room back to home base for distribution elsewhere then you need a second RG6. I you want to use a DBS satellite receiver in the room you also need to get the satellite feed to it. You can either share the whole-house cable with a diplexor, or use another RG-6 run.

And if you are thinking about DBS you'll want to run 4 RG6 cables from the structured wiring home base to the satelite dish location.


Again, think about what you might want to do with the UTP. It can be used for phone or data. If you are interested in DBS satellite receivers or other equipment which requires a phone connection keep that in mind as well.

You might also think about whether mixing wired ethernet with a wireless (802.11a/b/g) access point might be worthwhile. I beleive that it makes sense to hardwire desktop computers, printers etc. But I also like being able to unplug my laptop and wander around with a wireless connection.

For whole house audio, what I did was run both speaker wire and cat-5 from each volume control location back to an audio/video home base in the family room. Right now I'm using impedance matching volume controls for whole house audio, but the Cat-5 gives me the option to go a more high-tech route in the future.

I also did some cat-5 runs to major appliances, the furnace, etc. Again for future proofing.

Some on this depends on your local inspectors. They used to not look too hard at low-voltage wiring, but you can't count on it. Some locales allow low-voltage circuits to be run to mud rings, which provide a place for plates to be located on the wall, they are basically open boxes. I don't know about what kind of construction you are talking about, but they might look at whether you've used sufficient nail/screw protection to keep the drywall crew from hitting your wiring.

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I currently have 4 satellite recievers. I'm
locating everything to a central location. I'll
be injecting the sat's onto the coax via a digital
modulator. I wish to have future expansion so I think
2 runs will be fine. If I every have to feed back to
the central location and/or run direct to a sat dish
I'll be able to do it.

I was thinking of running two runs of cat5 to each
phone outlet for telephone and/or network connections.
Currently I run a hardwired and wireless G setup. If I
rent out to roommates I want them to be able to link
in somehow, and these wireless units are not the most
powerful things out there.

The only other things I've pre planned for is IR
distribution for my Sat systems. Each runs on a
different remote code, so I was thinking of using
Xantech type system to do this. I'm still confused how
the IR eye's and connecting blocks all "work" but I figure I can run power or whatever through the cat5 if
need be.

No interest really in audio distribution but heck, you
never know.

Really I just want to make sure I have the basics
covered.

I'm filming/taking pictures tonight of the place
before the drywall goes up. If all else fails I'll
fish what I need.

As for meeting code, I figure I'm running extra coax
next to what they have already run. The cat 5 will
follow what they run for telephone. I'm thinking that
should be ok.

Lumpy

Wow,

166 views.. 1 reply! ;-)

You guys do this stuff everyday?

Lumpy

yep, we do it every day...


when one person replies, they say what the rest of us would say on basic stuff like this.

Ahl...

This is not so basic really...I mean it's close to the multi thousand dollar PRE-WIRES we all do everyday....Not to mention what the finished projects are worth....sheeeeit....

jeez lumpy...excellent gratitude to the one respondent that did reply...he gave you valuable time and knowledge that he's taken years to obtain for free, to help you out in a hurry, cause you state you "have limited time for this."

Seems like you got the "guidance" you needed.

Besides, when you clearly know it all, what else are we pros, that actually do this everyday, to say?

Now I know why I don't bother with this forum that
often.

Rdenatale's reply was good. Covered most areas I'm
thinking of. I was hoping maybe some others would
have some different views and input on the subject.
You know discussion?

I guess you guys don't give a rat's ass unless your
being paid for your multi-million dollar installs
and attitudes.

I thought this forum was for discussion, not belittling someone for asking a question.

I never claimed to know everything, I respect anyones
input on the subject if it's constructive.

Lumpy

jeez you are one tripped out dude Lumpy..
the first reply said it all and you trip out on us because no one felt like posting a "yeah what he said" comment. Pre-wiring is basic skill/knowledge and for the most part everyone does it the same so there is no need for discussion.
Now some guys still run fiber as well but that is a decision you can make on your own and then run it blind to each room.
You should run a cat5e and 16/4 to every room along with a pair of 16/2 to the ceiling in each room for house audio. Also run some for outdoor entertainment as well.
for the IR the cat5 will be fine. or you can run a 22/4 to each room for IR control. but if you do run 22/4 still run a cat5e because alot of audio systems will utilize it.

if there are any future locations you could see a plasma hanging or a front projection unit or any TV that will be getting its source from a different location you can either run a bundle of RG-6 of about 6 or so and a cat5e or just run conduit so when you are fishing it is a piece of cake.
Dn't forget about surround sound. Do a S.S. prewire in master bedroom and the TV room and if there is another room that could be used for entertainment go ahead and do that one as well. Run 16/2 for rears/mains/and center, just in case you go with inwalls. Also I like to run rg-6 to a rear corner and a front corner for two sub locations.
Also you can run two 16/4's to sub locations as well just in case you run passive.
Also you can run some cat5e and rg-6 to wall locations for mounted control screens or security keypads or something. And run a couple rg-6 and cat5e to kitchen for TV or control system as well. That goes for the bathrooms as well.

Lumpy,

I'm not belittling you for asking the question at all, it's a good question. I get those phone calls everyday and frequently do all I can to assist.

I'm "belittling" your totally sarcastic attempt at grattitude and humor, in the face of indeed getting the answers you needed from a pro.

On another note, although I have no idea what you do for a living, my bet is YOU don't give away any more advice than you need to, as this is common nature. When you do post your free advice on whatever forum might be related to your line of work, and someone responds to your advice with, "161 views and 1 response....wow, you guys do this every day?" I hope you then gain a true understanding of the simple situation we have here.

Now I agree with rdenentale and ericstac...they pretty much have ALL you bases covered...Is there anything else any of us can answer for you? We (MYSELF INCLUDED) are always here to help, and always do. Although sometimes aggressively, especially when there seems to be a diss on the profession in the place of a thanks....

Lumpy, one other thing you may not have thought of: a lot of poeple who aren't the pros you addressed the post to read the forum, and may have contributed to your 161 views, and many of them may have viewed to see the answers.

It's not as if you pay for service here and are entitled to a certain number of responses, or even one. This is a voluntary forum. You're not owed anything, beyond simple human respect. The rest we do when we have the time, or feel we have something to contribute.

Your initial question was so detailed that it seemed that you already knew what you wanted to know, and were asking more as a affirmation. In your case, it comes down to what you want to be prepared for, and only you know that.

"You guys do this stuff everyday?" Yeah, most of us do, which is why we don't always have time to post responses as long and as detailed as the first one you got. Notice how many responses you got after your "emotional outburst"? That evoked more interest in responding to you than the initial question did.

I had read your post before anyone responded, and simply didn't have time to answer it at the time, plus, as I said, your question had more answers than questions in it, showing that you seemed to want a pat on the back for knowing enough to ask with the detail you included.

Like I said, this forum is of a voluntary nature; we like doing this, but we're not paid to do it. If you want to be able to demand performance, find one of us locally and pay for his services. Then you can insist. Until then, be patient. We get busy sometimes. Lighten up, please.

Larry
www.fineelectricco.com

Thank you Larry,

That was very well said. I had to restrain from using sarcasm at this point. I have noticed a lot of 1st time user "attitudes" at this forum lately. Hope it is not a trend.

Hey Lumpy. Let me ask you a question. Have you ever seen a site where you can contact an attorney online for free advice? How about an accountant, or a dentist, or interior designer, plumber, surgeon?

The point is that most of us are PROFESSIONALS. We contribute to this site a courtesy to those who use it and because we like helping out.

The truth of the matter is that this forum is set up not for customers to get free advice, but for pro's to exchange info among themselves.

Next time you have a "need to know" question, look in the yellow pages and call a pro! They will be happy to take care of your needs as a CUSTOMER!

You get paid (I'm sure) for what you do, extend that courtesy to the members of my profession as well.

I guess you guys don't give a rat's ass unless
your being paid for your multi-million dollar installs and attitudes - Quoteth Lumpy

Lumpy, I've been coming to this site for a couple of years but only now found a message demanding a reply...er ... call me a newbie to the forums.

Hmmm I think this little box I'm typing in will wordwrap rather than wrapcrap. Geez ... 4 Sat receivers and you think all "Our" PROjects surpass a few grand? Heres a rats arse .... ~(o):>

Come on guys, lighten up!. Lumpy may not be a professional, but he only wants advice- nobody is obligated to give it to him if they don't have time.

We shouldn't try to scare non-professionals off of this site. When people pose questions, it makes us think and read other installers ideas about the questions. It's a good thing.

As for us being professionals, some are more professional than others-- that is, some of us have a much broader knowledge base than others. Any electrician can do structured wiring, it doesn't require much real knowledge of audio/video to hook up one of those pre-fab boxes in the garage.

I am always surprised when I see installers modulating A/V sources and sending them to various rooms, some with surround receivers. Most modulators aren't stereo, and even if they are, most lose a lot of sound and picture quality in the process. A surround receiver can't do much with noisy, lackluster, mono sound except make it sound even worse. If you are to distribute a source, why not send it as discrete stereo line-level audio and either composite or S-video. Distribution amplifiers for A/V are inexpensive and the wire is not expensive. Evem component video is feasible to distribute. You will have to solder however, which will throw some "professionals" who don't know how to solder.

I also still see a lot of houses with a surround receiver hooked up in the family room with "Speakers B" hooked to a speaker selector box. That is truly the work of an amateur. What is sad is when so-called "professionals" give bad advice. What is even more sad, is that people hire them as professionals and get amateur results.

Stew, I think you find it was the Lumpsters attitude that got him flamed. Though we have disagreements here we generally try to support each other. Reread the post. I see your new here. Welcome aboard.