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Topic:
[Total Remote] "standard mode" VS "cff files"
This thread has 4 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Wednesday September 8, 2004 at 06:10
tanguy75
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2004
13
Hi folks,

I'd like to know if any of you tried both possibilities of Total Remote to work with cff files or in standard mode, and could share conclusions (pros/cons) and suggestions.

I'd like to know many things (too many for a single thread maybe :)

1) Do CFF files allow to use full screen ? I mean No menus, No tabs, JUST buttons (and of course a special one to allow switch back to menu mode !)

(I read that v3 would allow hard button assignments within cff, so this should not be a problem for me to wait (Designing the interface takes a lot of time !:-)


2) When you edit cff files can you :
2a) use IR DBs to setup the buttons
2b) edit IR that has been learned thru total remote ?

3) What percentage of work can you do on the PC and what % has to be done on the Pocket PC ?

4) Can you do more or less things, or the same can be done but in a different way ?
Just an example that makes me mad (might be improved in v3 ?) : I cant copy/paste/ (duplicate) a macro directly with total remote and I have to do 10 times the same job (channel programming 001-002-003 etc.)

5) Last question (for today :-) If (IF) I decide to use cff files and tonto edit, wich type of remote should take as template ? (RCxxx, RUxxx, TSUxxx, Rav, Custom(!) )
Post 2 made on Thursday September 9, 2004 at 09:54
MagnusB
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
March 2004
13
I use an old CCF file from my RC1000 or whatever it's called.
(The first model that came out).
It is edited in PRONTO-edit of course and contains discreet and learned codes (learned through PRONTO).

I can answer this:
1) Full screen is used (some small adaptations)

Haven't tried the rest yet. Just loaded the latest beta which seems to work fine but I'm not finished with testing yet.

Magnus
Post 3 made on Thursday September 9, 2004 at 14:43
Don Stratton
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
December 2002
190
On 09/08/04 10:10 ET, tanguy75 said...
Hi folks,

I'd like to know if any of you tried both possibilities
of Total Remote to work with cff files or in standard
mode, and could share conclusions (pros/cons)
and suggestions.

I'd like to know many things (too many for a single
thread maybe :)

Do I get a say, or am I too biased? ;)

1) Do CFF files allow to use full screen ? I
mean No menus, No tabs, JUST buttons (and of course
a special one to allow switch back to menu mode
!)

Total Remote's CCF mode does allow for slightly more on-screen real estate than an old Pronto when used in "fullscreen" mode, but there is no possible way for the CCF to use the ENTIRE screen at this time. We need to display the on-screen labels/buttons that correspond to hardware keys, and to provide an area for a option menu. We could do something cute like define a fly-out menu when you click and hold on a non-button area of the screen, but I don't really see the merit and it would be a hell of a lot of work. Of course the resulting format would not be a true CCF anymore, but some sort of bastardized Total Remote version, and I am pretty opposed to messing with something that is supposed to be a standard. Perhaps time will change my mind.

(I read that v3 would allow hard button assignments
within cff, so this should not be a problem for
me to wait (Designing the interface takes a lot
of time !:-)

Did I actually say THAT?!? I know I said that there would be options in the next version, but I did not mean to imply that it would apply to CCF mode. Button assignments in CCFs are already more flexible than TR's native mode, so I do not see that it would be necessary.

2) When you edit cff files can you :
2a) use IR DBs to setup the buttons
2b) edit IR that has been learned thru total
remote ?

If by "IRDB" you mean the small device database that is included with TR, no. You cannot access it the same way you could access the built-in codes on a Pronto. You certainly can edit CCFs that have TR-learned codes; ProntoEdit should be fine, but I have only used Tonto myself (ProntoEdit sucks).

3) What percentage of work can you do on the
PC and what % has to be done on the Pocket PC
?

What do you mean "work"?

4) Can you do more or less things, or the same
can be done but in a different way ?

Yes... or no, depending on what you mean. Maybe? Please clarify.

Just an example that makes me mad (might be improved
in v3 ?) : I cant copy/paste/ (duplicate) a macro
directly with total remote and I have to do 10
times the same job (channel programming 001-002-003
etc.)

I am not 100% clear on what you mean. Can you give me an example?

| 5) Last question (for today :-) If (IF) I decide
to use cff files and tonto edit, wich type of
remote should take as template ? (RCxxx, RUxxx,
TSUxxx, Rav, Custom(!) )

AFAIK, and that isn't much, you should use a TSU2000 color profile. I know SQUAT about CCF editing, and I would love for someone to reality-check me on this. If there is an optimum configuration for Total Remote users that isn't necessarily part of the spec but would likely work anyway it would be cool if some genius of CCF creation could share the love, yo.


--Don
OP | Post 4 made on Saturday September 11, 2004 at 04:27
tanguy75
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2004
13
What do you mean "work"?

Well, I mean i'd love to do program everything on the computer and just upload files on the remote when job is done. I think this might possible using cff files (including learning IR codes) but not using the standard mode or TR.

I am not 100% clear on what you mean. Can you
give me an example?

YES, well I'll try :)
I want to build macros to change radios on my cable box.
To program ONE radio, I have to program NINE keys :

\\ jump to cablebox device
1-Jump to Device Noos

\\ "wake-up" the cable box from a screen saver mode
2- press button "ok" for 50 ms
3- press button "return" for 50 ms"return"
\\ Jump to numeric buttons page
4-Jump to page 2
\\ select the radio chanel
5- press button "0" for 50 ms
6- press button "1" for 50 ms
7- press button "3" for 50 ms
\\ back to start point
8-Jump to Macros.rcdev \ (A fake device to store the macros)
9-Jump to page2

Now, just imagine i want to program a second macro for the "015" radio;
-> I have to redo ALL the steps instead of just copy/paste (duplicate) a macro then modify the step 7.
I hope this is clear now (sorry, my english is not so good :)


Well, now i have another suggestion about macros :

When the macro runs, it displays all the actions executed.
I think this is not usefull (except in a "debug" phase)
This slows the macro execution and might confuse the user.

About speed : In the exemple above, 5 keys are pressed during 50ms. So the macro should run in more or less 5 x 50 = 250 ms. In reality, it takes about 2-3 seconds (wich is quite long just to change a radio !)

My wish would be an option "display macro running [yes/no]" in the preferences.
This might allow saving a lot of time. Don't you think so ?
(Well, you might have already think of that for the next version? ;-)

Thank's for your attention,
Cheers,
Tanguy.
Post 5 made on Friday September 17, 2004 at 13:50
Don Stratton
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
December 2002
190
On 09/11/04 08:27 ET, tanguy75 said...
Well, I mean i'd love to do program everything
on the computer and just upload files on the remote
when job is done. I think this might possible
using cff files (including learning IR codes)
but not using the standard mode or TR.

This is the single greatest limitation of Total Remote's native mode. Griffin briefly experiemented with making our own skin editor and code editor just like ProntoEdit, but we were forced to anbandon the project due to resource constraints.

I would be really tempted to try to get such a product created, but it seems pointless in a world that already offers Tonto et al. Now, if some ubergeek wants to take the project on, I will certainly support it (and swag ya like mad from Griffin stock).

YES, well I'll try :)



Yeah, that worked!

That sounds like a cool idea. I will see if we can cram it into v3.0

When the macro runs, it displays all the actions
executed.

It may be more insidious than that. If you program a macro with buttons that have no IR code, you will find that macro runs very fast. It may be that the delays are not as obvious as might seem; they may be coming partially or wholly from the time used in the IR code. My reference Sony DVD player uses 32mS command bursts and 13mS pauses, and generally shoots out three at a time (no matter how quick you tap the button). so that is a MINIMUM of 135mS per press. If I take the example of pushing 9 buttons, I get 1215mS just for the IR to be transmitted. If I include a pause between each command of even 10 mS that adds 80mS more delay.

Then, to make matters worse, we are not handling the IR entirely correctly in the current release version, so where I should sample my Sony remote and get 3 bursts I actually get 6 (virtually all IR codes are improperly doubled; some devices are very sensitive to this and some like my Sony DVD player could care less). Also, in testing I was not able to get the burst "sixlets" any closer than 90mS apart, and that was using a button press of 5mS and a delay of 5mS (other values were even worse). The math is getting sick:

45ms code x 6 = 270mS
Min burst spacing = 90mS
Next sixlet = 270mS

Total time = 630ms to do what should have taken less than 200mS.

We clearly have some work to do. Note that your example value of 50mS per command would only have any function if that was as long as it took Total Remote to send it MORE THAN ONCE. Since this is sort of a "timed trigger" metaphor I figured I could set the button press to 1mS, but that doesn't work due to what looks like a bug in handling values of 1, so transmission loops over and over (need to fix that too).

My wish would be an option "display macro running
[yes/no]" in the preferences.
This might allow saving a lot of time. Don't you
think so ?

It shouldn't save any time at all, if it all works correctly. Since it is not working right, and this is not the problem... eh... I'll let you know when we fix it.

--Don


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