I have been finding that there is increasing percentage of my AV and other electronics that can be controlled via IP (Tivo, Blu ray player, Squeezebox, iMac, AppleTV, SlingPlayer). I'm not sure there are IP protocols for many A/V receivers yet nor TVs, but it begs the question 'Are there any universal remotes for IP protocols. I know that there are RF remotes that direct an IR emitter or RS-232 controller. However, a fully IP-based controller could be ported very easily to almost any networked touchpad device including an iPhone. Ideally I'd like to see macros and activity-based controls brought to IP control. Any thoughts?

RTI, Crestron, Pronto, Nevo, URC, and more all have remotes that can do what you want.

Wow that was snotty anyhomeneeds. I certainly am aware that there are limited application such as squeezecenter on the pronto that are IP controlled, but the RTI, Crestron, Nevo, URC, etc are largely RS-232 NOT direct IP controlled. What I'm looking for is an IP-based universal remote.

I wasn't being snotty, they all have models that offer IP control. RTI has 3 hand-held and 2 in-wall remotes capable of doing what you want with new IP drivers coming out all the time. URC just came out with some new IP remotes, and is really ramping up in that department. Pronto's and Nevo's are both Wi-Fi and have IP control, maybe not as much as you want, but they have it. Crestron, well it can do pretty much anything.

As far as them being largly RS232, well, that might just be because the vast majority of what they are controlling has RS232 control that is reliable and easy to set-up, unlike IP control.

Being snotty now- Did you want us to hold your hand and give out all the specifics of every model remote that will do what you are asking? They have been talked about pretty extensivly in their own forums. -snottiness over.

I guess my mistake was asking an amateur's question in the custom installers forum section. However Jeff, if you are as curt and condescending to your customers or potential customers, it is amazing you could stay in business. As for your snotty handholding comment, I'll tell you what you can do with that hand...A-hole.

Wow, he answered your question and you respond like that. Good luck on your next question, some of us see no need to help ungrateful douchtards!!

You are way out of line here.  I detected no snottyness.  

did someone piss in your wheaties or something?   

Roddy and Duct, you just made my day, thanks.

I did say I was going to be snotty before I made the hand-holding comment. Also note, that not once did I revert to childish name calling. I wan't curt or condescending towards you, untill you started calling names. Even after that, I tried to answer your original question better, before making a forwarned snotty comment.

I'll step back my comment Jeff. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your tone. The list of brand names did not address my intended question and in combination with the Google signature, it seemed really snotty to me.

As for the original question however (if anyone is still willing to listen to me) let me try to be a bit more clear as to my intent. I am remote programming novice that has configured only Harmony and Pronto remotes. I am familiar with the Pronto products and I am aware of their ability to communicate via IP. When working through the Pronto software however, it seems a significant undertaking to understand and configure the commands via IP for each device. I assume that is why there are custom installers and the hefty pricetags.

Am I correct that there is not currently a remote that is a consumer friendly as the Harmony remotes that controls via IP? I know there are iPhone apps that control individual devices via IP commands, but no current offerings that try to bring multiple devices together as a universal IP remote for iPhone. There are a lot of IP programing experts here and I am curious if anyone is working toward bringing the IP controls form professional touchscreen devices to consumer devices like android phones or iPhones and bring a more universal remote function.

I know there is a Crestron app that requires their controller. Savant and a few others have controller based systems with iPhone or android controllers, but there are big price tag attached. I know there are several IR emitter control apps as well. IP commands don't really require a controller device however and it seems like an ambitious custom installer could bring their knowledge to the smartphone platforms for a good consumer product.

Is this more difficult than I understand?

 Pro Tip:  

Signatures are rarely directed toward what the post is talking about   :)


and just so I'm not derailing the thread.  I will read your question when I'm not running late for work and try to help answer it ;)

To the OPs original question:

Just because a particular device has an ethernet port, does not necessarily mean that you can CONTROL it via TCPIP.

Many components have ethernet ports which they use exclusively for purposes other than control. Example would be an AV receiver accessing Internet radio stations, or a Bluray player which offers Netflix streaming.

But on many of these devices, you must still use IR or RS232 to do things like turn the device on, play content, select functions, etc. In particular most consumer grade equipment does not provide for TCPIP control.

So that is why remote control systems do not exclusively use TCPIP for control.

A remote control processor can serve as an intermediary to "translate" TCPIP command packets from a handheld or touchscreen to IR or RS232 which it sends to components. This is how many of the higher end control systems work.

The problem with an IP based solution is that every IP device does things it's own way and there is no standard yet. Heck there are still some rogue IR devices out there, but at least they all have to same intent with IR which is simply to trigger a command. Yes, some remotes do RS-232 without much programming, but not two way because a response and what to do with it is very device specific.

IP is even worse. Standards are starting to appear, but just like iPhone apps, the manufacturer or some developer will have to build a specific app for a specific device. I think Pronto is doing a great job at getting apps created and made available, but try to get someone like Sony for example to write a control interface for a competitor's line of remotes. As much as I hate to say it, you would probably have the best luck of getting an app for an iPod touch right now because they are trendy.

Although I think you are looking in the right direction long term, as a consumer you are a little early to the circus. As a commercial integrator, we are fully focused on IP based control solutions and with third party devices such as Waci Nuggets and GlobalCache for non-IP equipment you can control any device anywhere on a network. These systems do require some programming though, and while easily scalable to the consumer world the programming is still required.

Many years ago when I started in HT I figured that the PC was the way to go. I still believe that. I am not an installer but consult to several, and to several A/V manufacturers on control systems.

My theater is controlled by a black box PC. It is fanless, fast, and all solid state. Sits hidden away in a poorly ventilated cabinet but just keeps on ticking. Drives two monitors (VGA and Hi def at 1080p), 4 USB ports, but I use a Hub anyways, no RS232 but I use an Edgeport/8 ($20-40 on eBay) to give me 8 RS232 ports that look like Windows standard Com ports from a USB port, and I use a USB-UIRT to give me 3 zones of IR (2 wired and one Blaster). The PC sits on the house LAN as does anything in the hOuse that has an Ethernet port

The PC has a keyboard (wireless Blu tooth) that I rarely touch, and drives a 20 inch LCD monitor that flanks the main screen to show system status at all times (I just like to know what is going on, part of my OC anal nature). The PC self boots on Power failure and restarts the Theater application.

The whole theater, all electronics except for the Audio Power amp, is powered throgh a 1500 VA UPS with about 5 minutes of run time when in use and about 40 minutes when "Idle" and most things are in standby. I live in Central FL where power glitches are common.

The User interface is a Pronto PRO that talks to the PC (fully Bidirectional) using TCP/IP over wiFi. The users (myself, family, and friends) never touch see or know about the PC. The Pronto PRO is ideal (it was built to do this) for building control screens using nice graphics. It's (Pronto's) real power is the fact that it is the smallest hand held portable PC with excellent battery life and built in Wi FI running a version of Javascript as its native programming language.

In effect I have a very advanced "Crestron Like" contol system that costs much less in hardware (less than $2000 including one Pronto) but requires a lot of programming expertise and a love of solving puzzles, with available time and an understanding wife thrown in.

Bottom line: Yes you can run an entire house (My home is completely Wi-Fi and Pronto based for everything). IR is distributed house wide as is RS-422 and Ethernet (100baseT). There are four Prontos three of which run the same configuration and one a simplified one for guests.

Hope that helps.

i must say i like the idea of a universal IP set of instructions for a/v products although i seriously doubt we will every see one. i thought the same thing for cctv but now i see ONVIF and PSIA pushing forward for standardization of CCTV protocols/language so I believe there is hope on the a/v front also.

As tcp/ip becomes more of the norm than the exception in a/v you will see bridges first in the form of hardware and software. at some point maybe the big dogs will come together and agree on a common standard for a/v IP communications. however if you take a look at any large body that tries to use standards for protocols (take wifi or zigbee as examples) it can take forever to agree on something; never mind officially publish it. more closed protocols (take any commercial software or zwave as opposed to zigbee example) and you see it move faster (although not necessarily better).

that being said someone could still answer your question with a IP remote based on all of the IP api from all the manufacturers in a/v that have the ability in their products. someone would need to collect this information, keep it updated, disseminate it to all of the remote products/software, etc. This is like what is done for the iphone - itouch IR remote we did. The hardware manufacturer licenses the IR dbase which is collected from the manufacturers of IR devices and put on the hardware. i believe one of the main reasons why this hasn't been done so far at the manufacturer level is that this is really still in it's infancy whereas IR is very mature and agreed on by major manufacturers at this point. IP is just starting to be played with if you compare it to something like the history of IR in regards to a/v products.