Hi,

Just received my Momitsu V880N DVD player. Great machine, but trouble with the remote. For instance, when I try to learn the power code, this is what I get from a long press:

900A 0068 0000 0001 40BF 0EF1

However, this code does not work at all. So I tried shorter presses. I always get on of these two codes:

0000 0068 0024 0000 0164 00B4 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 062D 0164 005A 0016 00B4

0000 0068 0026 0000 0164 00B4 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 062D 0164 0059 0016 0EF5 0164 0059 0016 00B4

They both work pretty good (not as good as I like but that could be because of the player itself as well I guess), but the second code seems to work just a little bit better then the first.

However, the codes do not repeats. (I guess because there is no repeat part in the code at all. And that is probably because of the short press while learning.)

Can anybody help me make better codes from these? Or does anybody have good codes for a Momitsu V880N? (The codes for the V880, non-N version are different).

Having at least one good code can help me generate all 256 clean command, and look for any discretes at the same time.

Is it possible (from the codes above) to see the problem and correct it? I will post the same 3 versions as above for the Enter key as well, perhaps it will help.

900A 0068 0000 0001 40BF 5CA3

0000 0068 0024 0000 0164 00B3 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 062D 0164 0059 0016 00B3

0000 0068 0026 0000 0164 00B4 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 062D 0164 0059 0016 0EF5 0164 0059 0016 00B4

Thanks!

Regards, Stefan.

Ok, I just had an idea. By calculating the 900a code, I found out that the 0000 codes are actually the same, except some additional codes at the end. So I removed these(what I think are unnessecary codes) from the end, like this:

0000 0068 0022 0000 0164 00B4 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 00B4

The IR code still works. So now I tried to make it repeat by just copying the one-time part to the repeat part of the code, like this:

0000 0068 0022 0022 0164 00B4 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 00B4 0164 00B4 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 00B4

Guess what? It works! (please don't ask why I now have a repeating power code, it is just an example. But it seems to work for all the other codes I have tested as well)

Is this the correct way to do it? Are there better alternatives? Can an expert please give his/her opinion?

BTW, I was just reading this: [Link: home.tiscali.nl], and at the end of page 7 it says: "but I have trouble with RC9200 + Onkyo DVD – it learns its IR codes as 900A mistakenly". Could the Pronto NG have the same problem, with my DVD player?

Thanks again.

Regards, Stefan.

I'm pretty sure your signal is NEC1 protocol, but at 40Khz modulation instead of the usual frequency.

That's exactly what this signal says

900A 0068 0000 0001 40BF 0EF1

The problem is that the Pronto ignores the higher frequency when the signal is recognised and converted to 900A format.

If you get a worse learn, then it doesn't get recognised and doesn't get converted and thus it works. But then the repeat was wrong.

You "fixed" that by making the whole signal repeat. That is not duplicating what the original remote would send for a long press. Instead you are duplicating what the original might send for many short keypresses done very fast. Depending on which key you do that to, the behavior difference in the actual device (for many short presses vs. one long) might be trivial or might be serious.

The trick here is to generate a correct enough Pronto Hex string in 0000 format that it will send the right thing, but incorrect enough that it won't be recognised and converted to 900A format by ProntoEdit.

I did exactly that in a few recent threads with exactly the same (40Khz NEC1) issue, but I forget the details at the moment.

Edit: Found it. Try this for the power code (the one that was command 0EF1 in 900A format):
0000 0068 0024 0002 0168 00B4 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 06D9 0168 005A 0016 0F47 0168 005A 0016 0F47

To produce those with MakeHex, I used a .irp file consisting of this:

Device=64
Function=0..255
Protocol=NEC
Frequency=40000
Time Base=564
One=1,-3
Zero=1,-1
Default S=~D
Form=16,-8,D:8,S:8,F:8,~F:8,1,-78,16,-4,1,-174;16,-4,1,-174

Great, thanks!

Actually, I did find your other post already and tried it using MakeHex. However, I used the device code 64.191, which didn't work. The IR code you posted above does work, so I assume just using device code 64 will work.

I will do some more testing tommorow and will let you know the results. But I have a good feeling about it now, thanks so much for your help.

Regards, Stefan.

Device 64 and device 64.191 are identical. When there is no subdevice, the part of the signal that would hold the subdevice instead holds a check byte equal to 255 minus the main device. Since 255 minus 64 is 191, encoding 64.191 produces the signal for device 64 with no subdevice.

So if your earlier attempt didn't work, there must have been some other difference.

Note that the .irp file posted above differs from the normal nec1.irp in both the frequency and the form. The frequency is different because that's the real difference from nec1. The form is different in order to disguise the result. Undisguised, the signal would be correct but ProntoEditNG would recognise it and then wreck it.

You are right, the difference was in the 'Form' line. Using your .irp file works fine. However, in order to test all the generated codes I normaly use IRPanels. But using the output from MakeHex it crashes with a 'Run-time error 6, Overflow'. I guess it is a bug in IRPanels...

Are the other ways (other then manually) of generating a ccf file from the MakeHex output?

Regards, Stefan.

That is quite a strange bug in IRPanels.

I ran a bunch of tests and only partially understand what conditions make IRPanels crash. But I managed to find a trivial change to the .irp (that shouldn't make any difference to the real device) that avoids the bug in IRPanels:

Device=64
Function=0..255
Protocol=NEC
Frequency=40000
Time Base=564
One=1,-3
Zero=1,-1
Default S=~D
Form=16,-8,D:8,S:8,F:8,~F:8,1,-70,16,-4,1,-174;16,-4,1,-174

It is strange indeed, because you would expect it to just copy the code into the CCF file. As it says in the readme...

But your workaround worked! Where would we be without you? I can start searching for discretes now. Let's hope we find some...

Only... I just found out that the MakeHex generated codes (the one that works with IRPanels as well as the one that doesn't work with IRPanels) still do not repeat! What am I missing here?

Regards, Stefan.

I must be missing something.

First do we mean the same thing by "repeat"? You hold the key pressed for a longer time and want to get the same behavior as the original remote would have produced for a long press.

I based my entire understanding of how your original remote does long presses on the third learn you posted for each of Power and Enter. In each case, near the end of the signal (beginning of last line as viewed in my web browser) it has the pattern 0164 0059 0016 0EF5, which is very close to the NEC1 repeat pattern, so I assumed NEC1 repeat was correct.

In my .irp file I left the repeat timing from NEC1.IRP, which generated 0168 005A 0016 0F47 twice per signal as the repeat.

The trivial differences in value shouldn't matter, but there is a long shot chance that they do. You might try replacing the two copies of 0168 005A 0016 0F47 at the end of one signal with two copies of 0164 0059 0016 0EF5 and see whether that makes a difference.

The more likely theory is that your original remote uses two different systems for long presses. For keys like Power and Enter, where long presses shouldn't repeat, it uses NEC1. But for keys like VOL+ etc. where a long press should repeat it uses NEC2. In that case, something closer to what you did before I started helping would be correct.


I've seen other devices mixing NEC1 and NEC2 this way, but they are rare enough that I decided not to mention that complication earlier.

It should be possible in a few tries to get a bad enough learn of one of those keys that it isn't recognised and translated, but good enough that the repeat rule can be determined.

It is easy to modify the .irp file to generate exactly the repeat structure of your first successful test, or generate whatever we think the repeat structure really should be once we see some learned signals.

Yes. That is what I mean. When I press a key on the original remote for a long time, the keys start repeating the same action. For instance, pressing 'Up' for a long time allows me to go up multiple entries.


I have learned all the keys with a short press, and they all end with the same pattern as above (small differences here and there, just 1 digit, non of them really important enough I guess). I will post some other keys here just to make sure:

Up:
0000 0068 0026 0000 0164 00B4 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 062D 0164 0059 0016 0EF5 0164 0059 0016 00B4

Down:
0000 0068 0026 0000 0164 00B4 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 062D 0164 0059 0016 0EF5 0164 0059 0016 00B4

Vol-:
0000 0068 0026 0000 0164 00B4 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 062D 0164 0059 0016 0EF5 0164 0059 0016 00B4

Vol+:
0000 0068 0026 0000 0164 00B4 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0043 0016 0016 0016 0043 0016 062D 0164 005A 0016 0EF5 0164 005A 0016 00B4

All the above keys where learned with a short press. Using a long press would result in a 900a code again, which does not work at all.

So I guess all the keys use the same structure?


No, does not make a difference.


I don't think so, all the codes seems to have the same structure. But I admit it was not smart posting power en enter codes, and then start about repeating. Hopefully I cleared that up by posting cursor and volume codes as well.

Any other ideas?

Regards, Stefan.

No good ones.

It isn't mixed NEC1 and NEC2. It isn't the minor difference in timing.

I think the Pronto Hex we're using describes the same IR signal as the original remote sends. But you test and the result is different.

There's always the chance that the NG firmware has another bug that I'm either forgeting or never understood. But the only way to investigate that (and look for work arounds) is to learn the signal from the NG Pronto into some other (preferably more trusted) IR learning device with PC download ability. I expect you don't have one of those.

The method you started with (simulate many very short presses rather than one long press) may be the easiest answer, even though we now see it is quite different from what the original remote sends.

Well, thanks for helping me out sofar. At least a got a set of clean codes, and I got a chance to look for any discrete codes. Which BTW I haven't found yet.. :-(

Perhaps in de future (the Momitsu V880N is a very new DVD player) others come up with better codes learned from different learning remotes.

Thanks again for all your help.

Best regards, Stefan.

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I just came upon some Momitsu 880N IR.

Unfortunately a minute after posting this message I confirmed these were in fact the same commands as for the older V880 model (NEC12 @39KHz, Dev0)- which according to all sources are definitely not compatible.

The only other interesting piece of information I found was that these IR codes overlapped with those of some Pioneer TVs and that the commands for the newer 880N overlap with those of some Toshiba TVs. Apparenty this is so widely known that it's written on practically all web pages offering these devices for sale.

Bruno

This message was edited by TwistedMelon on 02/24/05 21:44 ET.

Hi all,
I'm a newby in this forum and pronto remote, would it be possible for me to have the ccf of Momitsu V880N ?

Thanks

Old thread, but I am also looking for a ccf for the Momitsu DVD-V880N. Can anybody help me?

Ben