Our TiVo and Digital Cable adapter have all arrived and have been set-up. It's working well. The TiVo works as advertised and with the adapter is able to control the DiVT1000 STB Telewest provide.

Next, to program our Pronto to control the TiVo and thus the STB.

TiVo have a different attitude to the Pronto. Their WWW site includes a download section with some ccf files with TiVo pannels.

I too an yet another victim of the NTL digital boxes using IRDA.

I would love to purchase a video sender to watch cable,tv and DVD on my TV set upstairs. I've been speaking today to a company which produces one in particular (www.digisender.com). They say that next week they have a meeting with NTL at their factory. The idea is to modify their product somehow to transmit the higher frequency IRDA signals. Fingers crossed.

Still doesn't help me as I want to purchase the Pronto to control every other device in the house.

Just to add to this. I notice that there has been a .ccf file uploaded which claims to control 2 of the NTL Pace STB's.

Has anyone tried this ?

Jason,

The news about digisender is good. I suspect you'll still need remote which can generate the IrDA signals for the digisender to send back to the STB.

As for the .ccf files, the first is for 4000N box, the second does not say. The 4000 boxes don't use IrDA. It's the 1000s and 2000s which do and are the pain.

I read on "blueyonder.discussion.activedigital", that there was a brand new STB called the DI4000 that Telewest are about to trial in their franchises (this box not to be confused with the 4000N in the above threads).

I asked Pace whether it was IrDA or not, and they replied:

"The Di4000 will use the same remote as the existing boxes, Telewest have not requested dual functionality with a standard type of remote."

I have finally done it. After starting this thread eighteen months ago and a mere £630 upgrade to my Pronto, I can control my entire home cinema system with one remote.

I have given up on Telewest doing anything and I have taken the plunge and bought TiVo with a lifetime subscription and a digital cable adapter and it all works beautifully. I use the Pace DITV1000 set top box effectively as a tuner and TiVo to control all my channel changing and viewing of program information.

The Pronto controls TiVo without any problems and TiVo changes channels with pretty good accuracy. It misses occasionally and I hope that it won't miss with recording channels. The speed of changing channels is slower with TiVo, but the benefits of TiVo far outweigh this disadvantage.

I am really happy now as I can now use my Pronto to it's full potential. I have programmed it for nearly all ninety odd channels that I receive and have a useful device setup for the TiVo.

However, the £630 I spent on TiVo isn't just an upgrade to my Pronto. TiVo is an amazing gadget and my whole family found it incredibly useful even in the few days we had it before I got the digital cable adapter. It really does revolutionise how you watch TV as you can watch your TV programs exactly when you want to and there is no chore of ploughing through a pile of tapes. Also, you can skip adverts very quickly indeed. I will probably end up watching only recorded programs precisely for that reason.

It was a lot of money to spend, but I'm really glad that I did.

Teresa

I have contacted a company who may be interested in providing a solution to this problem. They currently have a lot of work on so it will be 2-3 months before they can look at this. I will provide an update when I have more info.

Please DO NOT start filling up this thread with email me/me too messages I will NOT respond to them. When I am in a position to offer more details I will do so.

This is just a heads up that there may be light at the end of the tunnel

Trevor

With the launch of the new Pronto Pro and its' ability of learning frequencies up to 56 kHz and 455 kHz, do we think this may be an alternative to Teresas' £630 upgarde?

I have a Di4001N but I have a thought about how to use the Tivo dongle with the 1000/2000 series.

The dongle is designed to connect to the IR output of the Tivo which would normally connect to two IR transmitters. It shouldn't be too difficult for someone to build a IR receiver with the output being the same signal levels and the Tivo sends. This would then convert IR to IrDA.

You could plug the normal IR transmitters into the Tivo and learn those codes.

Has anyone tried this?

I'd like to thank you folks. I've been following the Telewest Set To Box / remote issue for a while now. At present, the TiVo box option is the only way to get a remote like the pronto to work. You can choose the One for all mosaic or you can wait for a third party to develop an IR adaptor to plug into the Telewest Pace box. I just thought I'd drop a note about the TiVo. For the month of July the price is reduced by £100 direct from TiVo. John Lewis's will price match them and also give an extra year's warantee. The Cable adaptor is also reduced and now costs £29.99. Hope this is of help to some of you our there, Regards, Anthony

I have been to the TiVo web page and can't find the 100 off deal ?????

Does this mean that the TiVo option is 400 -100 = 300
plus 200 for subscription plus 30 for adaptor (ie £530)?

Also, what are the connections like?

I have all my AV equipment equipment going to my tv via my Yamaha Amp. to work, does the TiVo go inbetween the cable box and the tele in series or does it need another scart socket in the tele / video.

Thanks,
C

Message to MORTS/anyone else that can help.
Messaged tech guy at pace and he says the Di4001N still uses IRDA. Does your remote really learn for this box?? Makes no sense to me really. Why the f*** cant someone create a module that connects to these boxes to convert the signals? (that isnt Tivo).
Here is his correspondance:
Hi Warren,
The Di4001N uses IRDA remote protocols and is a rental only unit so it is unavailable for purchase.
The system used was chosen by our customers ( the network providers ) and is a high speed system that gives some " future proofing " of the design . The system is designed for remote keyboard use ( Web browsing ) and to enable multiple handset to be used " simultaneously " as required when playing games . This is because at some time in the near future the network providers will offer these services .

"Normal" handsets use a system of modulating (switching on and off ) a carrier signal . The normal frequency of the carrier being in the range of 35kHz to 60kHz..

The system used by Pace uses TWTV protocol which is based on the IRDA standard that has been designed to enable computer peripherals to be linked without cables . ( This is not surprising as modern digital cable set top boxes contain a powerful micro processing systems and the Pace boxes are the first to also provide an integrated cable modem within the box.) The handset data is transmitted as discrete pulses of IR - it is not carrier based . The pulse rate is approximately 115kHz . The handsets have identification keys / tabs that enable the receiver to identify the handset . Each key sends a 7 byte package of data within 600uSec ( the same time that it taken to send only 1 or 2 bits of information with the normal system ) . This allows the data to be sent very quickly thus freeing time for a second handset to jump in . The receiver software also adds a time stamp to the data to enable the games programmes to decide which handset responded first . The system and protocols used are covered by patents held by TWO WAY TV LTD .
Hope this information is useful to you.

Regards
Paul Ramsden

I have decided to take this matter to the top, and am writing to the MD of ntl, One of the only people who can make a difference. Talking to Pace & customer servce reps doesn't seem to work. We are obviously stuck with the current known options (tivo/sky/2 remotes/OneForAll) until some sort of adapter is made available.

So, could you have a look at the letter I am going to send in the next week to make sure that I have got everything right then after your comments I will send it (recorded delivery!) and follow up asap.
Cheers

***** LETTER TO NTL DIRECTOR *****
I HAVE PROVIDED LINKS TO INTERNET SITES AS FOOTERS IN THE LETTER, BUT THEY DO NOT APPEAR WHEN POSTED TO THIS DISCUSSION PAGE
***********************************



Mr. S. Carter
Managing Director and Chief Operating Officer
ntl House
Bartley Wood Business Park
Bartley Way
Hook
Hants
RG27 9UP

Dear Mr. Carter,

I have been a ntl customer, receiving television and telephone services to my home ever since moving to Egham and I have been delighted with the range and quality of services I have received over the past few years.

I have recently come up against a problem with the service ntl currently provide, that none of your customer service representatives or technicians are able to assist with. Following many phone calls I feel that you may be the only person who can provide the solution.

I graduated with an IT related degree and work for one of the worlds largest IT consultancy firms. I actively embrace new technology and support the “focus on innovation, customer service and entrepreneurial spirit that keep you at the top”, as stated by ntl CEO and President Mr. Knapp on your ntl web site.

In my support for the latest technology I have amassed many ‘black boxes’ each with their own infrared remote control and I have recently sought a solution to the rack of remotes cluttering my sofa in the form of the Phillips Pronto .

I don’t know if you have heard of the Pronto, (which also trades under the name Marantz RC5000). It is currently the most advanced learning remote on the market allowing a user to amalgamate hundreds of remote controls and present them on a completely configurable touch-sensitive screen assigning multiple functions to single buttons.

So what’s the problem? The problem is that one of the only devices that will not accept Pronto commands is the ntl/Pace DiTV1000 Top Set Box [TSB], the one that I have been supplied as part of my communication contract.

I have spoken with a lot of people at both ntl and Pace and established that currently the ntl/Pace TSB cannot accept commands from my Pronto. The reason I have eventually been given, by Craig, one of the technicians at Pace, is described below :
Pace produce lots of Top Set Boxes [TSBs} for different cable companies. These include the d1000t, d1010t, ditv1000 and ditv2000 [1000/2000 Series] that were supplied to Cable and Wireless Communications [CWC] and include the di4001n [4000 Series] supplied to Telewest.

Although the old CWC regions and old Telewest regions are now under the control of ntl, they still use different TSBs. Old CWC customers having 1000/2000 Series TSBs, old Telewest customers having 4000 Series TSBs.

The 1000/2000 Series TSBs use an advanced type of infrared similar to what is used by computer peripherals (IRDA) and that is why they do not accept commands from the Pronto. The 4000 Series TSBs use regular infrared so can accept Pronto commands.

Although similar, the TSBs are not interchangeable, as the TSB at the customer end has to be identical to the box at the ntl end. So, if in an old CWC area with a 1000/2000 Series TSB it is not possible to simply buy a 4000 Series TSB and plug it in.

At the back of the 1000/2000 Series TSBs are ports labelled ‘IR Blaster’ and ‘IR Sender’. These ports were originally designed to allow other devices to be controlled by the TSB (e.g. so you could forward emails to a computer or printer via the infrared signals). NTL have not utilised these ports – yet. If they were utilised the TSB could accept Pronto commands.

To utilise these ports would require small changes to software/hardware and although it is possible for Pace to do this, they cannot make changes without a request from their client. ntl have not requested this change.

In summary, if receiving digital TV from in an old CWC area with a 1000/2000 Series TSB, is not currently possible for the TSB to receive Pronto infrared commands. However, it is possible for Pace/ntl to make adjustments to software/hardware to allow this functionality.

The information about the different TSBs was confirmed by an announcement I read on the ‘diginews’ internet site. The announcement provided further disappointment by stating that although ntl are going forward with the 4000 Series, the infrared technology for future TSBs will be IRDA – which will not accept pronto commands.

After eventually finding out the reason why the Pronto cannot control the ntl/Pace TSB I sought a solution.

All Pace employees that I have spoken to tell me that they produce the TSB according to the specification requested by their client, ntl. Although they could make simple hardware or software adjustments to enable the TSB to be controlled by Pronto, these have not been requested by yourself. All the ntl employees I have spoken to, when eventually understanding the problem, simply tell me that senior management have made the decision and it is out of their hands.

This is why I am writing to you.

Three solutions that I have found are:
 purchase a TiVo PVR. There is a TiVo specific adapter which allows the TiVo to control DiTV1000 and DiTV2000 TSB. The Pronto can control the TiVo which in turn controls the TSB.
 purchase an inferior remote control manufactured by OneForAll that is no-where near as versatile or powerful as the Pronto but sends IRDA signals.
 the final, cheaper, solution is to receive digital television from OnDigital or Sky as their remotes use regular Infra Red devices.

If I were the only person with this concern then I would accept the compatibility problem and set off on one of the above three solutions, however this is by no means the case.

As the Pronto can accept advanced programming techniques, there is an internet knowledge sharing website running to help people configure their Pronto .

This popular site is dedicated to advanced Infra Red remote controls with by far the most popular forum being the “Philips Pronto & Marantz RC5000” forum

In this forum there have, for a number of months, been discussions on this Pace TSB/Pronto problem and attempts at possible workarounds, which have been to no avail. Pronto users, clearly, have resorted to changing digital service providers, buying TiVo’s or simply putting up with the Pronto and the ntl remote sitting side by side.

To demonstrate the magnitude of the problem, a search for the word ‘ntl’ finds 2319 threads containing what must be well over 10,000 messages from Pronto users wanting to talk about ntl, a significant number of these threads are queries from users with this very problem.

As far as I can understand the technology to allow the ntl/Pace TSB to be controlled by my Pronto already exists. Through simple modifications to TiVo attachments or the sockets on the back of the TSB, myself, and many others, could enjoy having a single infrared devise to control all of our entertainment boxes.

There is as I have explained a great demand for this facility, a demand that you may not be aware of due to the technical nature of the problem resulting in few people managing to get very far with enquiries.

I am writing to ask if you could fulfil this need by providing a solution. The resulting solution, software update or infrared accessory, you could, if required, sell for a small cost that I am sure Pronto users would be willing to pay given that the latest version of Pronto is set to retail at £700.

From the ntl web site Mr Knapp states that the ntl philosophy is that ntl
“want people to be able to communicate wherever they are, whenever they want to - and we want to make it simple for them to do so.
It's about utilising technical innovation to create the practical, everyday tools that people need to live their lives and run their businesses. We give you the business tools to work smarter and support innovative, competitive strategies.”

I feel that providing a solution to this problem fits into the above philosophy.

Thank you for taking the time to read this letter and I look forward to your reply.

Yours sincerely,



Christopher

Christopher,

The TiVo has 3 SCARTs and sits between the STB and the TV. There is an RGB SCART from the STB into the TiVo, an RGB SCART from the TiVo to the TV and a bi-directional composite SCART to/from the TiVo to a VCR.

In normal use the STB signal goes through the TiVo to the TV. This is how the TiVo is able to pause live TV and rewind it.

The VCR can record what ever the TiVo is outputing. If you play a tape in the VCR the TiVo will automatically display it on the TV.