My AV receiver (Harmon Kardon AVR-330) has discrete input commands that also include discrete Power On. I was wondering if there is a way to use these instead of a discrete power on when starting an activity. I would need to use different ones, obviously, depending on the activity. The advantage is I could avoid the need to send a separate command for input selection and also avoid the 4+ second Power On delay before switching inputs.

My MX-700 can do this and it works very well. I want to switch to the One but issues like this are making it hard to love.

The easy way is to give it a dummy power on command (a command that does nothing or you can even learn a command from a different nonexistent device and use that), then let the input selection take care of it.

Thanks, I will give that a try.

I'm confused. Wouldn't this throw the "Smart State" out of whack? In other words, if the Power On command is not sent how would the remote know to send a Power OFF command when shutting down?

But as far as the remote knows it *did* send the power on command, so the smart state knows it's on. All you're doing is using the input command as both input select and power on. OFF or switching activities will work normally after that.

Selecting -None- for the Power On command, then ignoring the warning, did the trick. Thanks to akirby for the tip.

Did selecting No powerup command stuff the shutdown function ?

I spoke too soon - this method doesn't work. If the Receiver input setting at last poweroff is the same as the setting in the desired powerup activity, no input command is sent which means no power on command is sent. The Smart State logic defeats this potential solution. (Side note: I just don't understand why Harmony remotes behave this way. See my other thread "Why use Smart State logic for devices with discretes?". If you could disable the Smart State logic for devices with discrete input codes, this solution would work).

So I'm back to square one. If I can't select different power-on commands for different activities, I'm stuck with a lengthy power-on delay for my receiver. Meaning I have to point the remote at my AV system for 5 seconds. This is not necessary with my MX-700.

Unless something has changed recently, it always resends discrete input selection codes when entering an activity even if it knows it's already on that input. Are you sure you have it configured for discrete input selection versus other options (list, cycle, menu, etc.)?

Check that you have selected method 2 (discrete method) for the input configuration.

I am using method 2 for input selection. I'll run some tests tonight and post results. Then maybe someone can check if their remote is behaving the same way.

I did some tests tonight and here is my conclusion: The Harmony One does NOT send discrete input or power commands to a device if Smart State logic thinks it is already in the desired state. Maybe someone could try these tests with their remote to see if they all work this way or if it's just me.

Background:
All tests done with Harmony One (H1) remote
TV and receiver support discrete input commands and H1 is set up to use "Method 2" for switching inputs
TV and receiver support discrete power on/off and H1 is set up to use separate on/off commands
Activity 1 and Activity 2 both include the TV and receiver devices


Test 1: Does H1 send discrete power on to all devices in an activity when switching to that activity?
Start with everything off
Select Activity 1; everything powers up OK
Use OEM remote to turn off TV
Select Activity 2; TV does not turn on

Test 2: Does H1 send discrete input commands to all devices in an activity when switching to that activity?
Start with everything off
Select Activity 1; everything powers up OK
Use OEM remote to switch the Receiver input to a different input
Select Activity 1 again; Receiver does NOT switch back to the correct input

Conclusion: H1 does NOT send discrete input or power commands to a device if Smart State logic thinks it is already in the desired state.

My opinion: This makes the Harmony remote less robust than it should be. In the real world there are many situations where the Smart State can get out of sync with the True State. To avoid this problem, the remote should always transmit discrete power and input commands for all the devices that support discrete codes when an activity button is pressed. The current design requires frequent use of the Help button to correct out-of-sync situations.

I'll do my own tests tonight, but that's not how I remember it, I agree on Test 1 but not on Test 2. By selecting the same activity, all discrete input commands are sent again.

However, the nature of discrete commands means that you can include them at the start of every activity, regardless of what Smart State thinks.

Activity -> Settings -> Review the settings for this activity -> Yes, but I want to add more control ...

After a few pages you will be in Custom Actions, here you can add as many commands as you wish per device when the activity starts and when the activity stops.

The harmony software originally did not resend discrete commands unless necessary but that was changed a few years ago because resending a discrete command can't hurt and it would solve some problems automatically (like the tv being off when it should be on) without needing help.

It's possible that this was changed recently. I'll try it tonight with mine just to check but you might want to call support and ask them. It may be an option that they can control even if it's not in our user interface.

OK, I've done the tests, and the results are exactly as I remembered:

Test 1 FAIL
Test 2 PASS