I really like the looks of the Harmony 1000 and plan on buying it if I can figure all of this out first. My question is that I read that the 1000 supports RF with the extender add on but it said only zwave protocol.

I had x10 in the past and it got the job done. Very cheap and worked great. I been searching online and doing some research but cant find a reliable source for an answer. I am wondering if the Harmony can work with any others rather then just zwave? Also i'm wondering what all good companies offer zwave.

I'm looking for dimmers, wall outlets, curtains, thermostat to be all controlled by one remote. I cant seem to find a good online store that has this and any straight answers that will tell me its compatible with the Harmony 1000.

Another great thing that I'm looking for is mac software to control all of the RF also. I have found software that controls X10 and Insteon but nothing for zwave.

Is there a solution that will work for my needs?? Maybe a different remote?

Any input would be a great help.

Thanks!

See this site: [Link: z-wavealliance.org]

I did read a lot on that website, but I'm still looking for a good company(s) that sells garage door opener and curtains. Know of any?

Also a missing piece is mac os x software to control zwave.

All Harmony's emit signals using Infra Red. So control of X10 modules is over IR. You must have been using it with an IR -> X10 receiver.

In addition, the Harmony 890, 895, 890 Pro and 1000 specifically support both Z-Wave and a proprietry RF standard local to Logitech. These are not the same comms standard.

This RF standard only works with the RF-> IR emitter that gets packaged with most of these remotes. You will not be able to use them with any other RF device.

This implies that if you want to control X10 over RF, you will still need to go via the IR route. Therefore RF -> IR -> X10. It's not the slickist set up but it should do the job.

The use of Z-Wave on the Harmony's in my opinion is very very poor. Although you can control Z-Wave modules, you are limited in integrating them into existing Activities. At the moment you can only integrate them in an Activity Starting.

So, you could Dim a Z-Wave controlled light on starting a 'Watch DVD activity'. But you can't brighten the lights if you Pause (mid-activity) or change activity to say 'Listen to Music' (exit activity).

Hope this helps!

That helps a lot! Do you know of a better remote to do the job? I dont have my hard set on the Harmony I just like the fact that it has osx software. I can always use windows to program it.

It would be really nice to control the likes for like pausing like you said.

I think I am going to go with zwave so a remote that that handles zwave without anything extra would be the best.

I still looking for zwave curtains if you know any good source for that too :)

Aside from the physical button differences and the Z-Wave compliancy in the newer models, all remotes are identical. Yes really.

What I can control with my - near - top of the line 895 can be controlled with my older 688. Don't beleive the hype about extra functions. Some of the older remotes feature Pic and Sound buttons which allow an additional set of IR commands to be assigned to a button, but Logitech are now considering this a premium feature chargable to us customers!. So the 890 Pro has this functionality (and ok may be a few extras) but you'll be paying alot more for these mappable buttons. A cheaper version I beleive is the new 670.

I'm fairly sure the 1000 doesn't offer anything more complelling than any other Z-Wave and touch screen control. Personally, if I wanted a touchscreen experience then I would want WiFi connectivity and feedback response which I expect are features of the more high end kit such as AMX of Crestron. (You'll have to go in to the Custom Installers forum if you're really interested in these).

My choice of the 688 and 895 came from wanting a programmable remote that was tactile. I'm not a fan of touchscreens and in my experience the Harmony remotes have the highest WAF (Wife Acceptancy Factor).

I'm based in the UK where Z-Wave is even more limited than the US (where I imagine most contributors in this forum are based), so I couldn't really advise on where you could source Z-Wave kit. However, one of the main US manufacturers of Z-Wave are http://www.act-solutions.com/. Give them a buzz and I'm sure they could advise on suppliers close by to you.



Best of luck.

If you want Z-Wave, then your only option is Harmony or Monster. The Monster remotes are based on the Harmonys, but I think their Z-Wave implementation is better.

NO universal remote can learn RF, or directly control an RF device(such as your garage door opener), apart from the Z-Wave support of Harmony and Monster. The other RF universals only use RF to communicate to their own IR repeater "base station".

The reason that you can't control other RF devices outside of Z wave is simple - the FCC manages that so that one RF device doesn't interfere with the normal operation of other RF devices. I imagine Z wave uses a common frequency with some type of digital id to distinguish which device is being addressed.

I'd have to disgaree from a European perspective.

RF is only the frequency carrier. A protocol must be used by the emitter and the receiving equiment to allow for control. Examples include your Car Alarm / Door lock, Wireless door bells, Digital Cordless phones, Bluetooth devices etc...

The reason I disgaree (and this is to CE standards rather than FCC) is because my door bell conflicts with my Car! On some days, if someone presses my door bell, I can't open my car door remotely!

Getting back to our discussion, even IR is carried over lower frequency RF but this is a standardised format that all equipment manufacturers agree on. This lower frequency doesn't allow the RF light to pass through walls. The common protocol it uses is RC6.

So likewise, Z-Wave is a protocol carried over a designated higher RF frequency. But higher enough to pass through walls.



Gaaawd, this is getting technical!

Lets not scare the guy off.

Dude [srafx], buy a frickin' Harmony and enjoy!

Well its not getting too technical for me, I'm just not liking the outcome. Ha. I also think this thread might need moved and a change of title. Sort of went another direction.

What I'm understanding is if I want to setup a environment that macros control my lights and tv I will have to use a RF -> IR converter or buy a IR -> RF that would control the devices specifically (like a x10 IR - RF). Pretty much the RF technology in these remotes wont do any good for me unless I wanted to turn off a IR device in another room, which is pretty much a waste from my point of view.

I was looking around a few days back and I keep going back to the Monster remote.
[Link: monstercable.com]

It doesn't say how you configure or how it controls your lights, but I would think if you bought Monster modules for your lights (even though they are high priced) the remote should work fine with them through RF? or am I wrong?

What really got me confused from the start is I went into Tweeter and the guy told me there that the MX3000 would work with any RF technology. Which I really found out isn't true at all. I still don't know what my best option is. I could buy a really good remote, like a Harmony and buy a bunch of cheap x10 stuff which then I could just control in with the IR -> RF (x10) convertor. If the Monster remote works the way it should, that might be the way to go. Is there any companies out there that make a remote to work with a specific line of devices using RF technology?

Update*
Just found this:
Note: Many X10 devices are RF (radio frequency) controlled. The controller can send IR (infrared) signals only. You can purchase an IR to RF module from X10 if your device is RF. Refer to your X10 documentation to verify whether your X10 controller is capable of receiving IR

If a remote could work with any RF technology, then there would be chaos.

Potentually, you could open any persons car . Your baby monitor could potentially change channels etc... (ok, there are protocol differences but your same concept applies)

It sounds like you need a remote with maximum versatility in controlling RF controlled equipment. The entire consumer world would love this as well.

I hear your pain - I would love to purchase Ulti lighting and have the Harmony control it out of the box. But no such luck. The comrpmise is IR controlled lighting where you would need line of sight to the light switch (or via X10) or use Z-Wave.

Unless a Remote vendor has a specific partnership with a known RF standard then you're likely to hit a brick wall.

Again, I'm talking about the consumer remote world.

If you want to head down the custom install route, brands such as UEI, Creston and AMX you may find more possibilities. It may be worth posting a question in the Custom Installers forum.

The world needs one universal medium of making devices talk. The only protocol that is making any headway is uPNP. Also take a look at Insteon and Zigbee. I'm sure there are Wiki's about these on the web.

I'm curious if anyone has successfully implemented this, I have not yet had a customer request it. Using an 890 and x10 IR>receiver/converter or IR receiver, couldn't you place the 890 extender and X10 receiver/converter in the same cabinet and using the extender emitter capabilities (or one of the smaller emitters), circumvent the need for the line of sight Dark Knight mentions? I realize it's RF > IR > RF, but it would give the x10 control without the line of sight and using a single remote....without z-wave controllers.

IR is Infra-Red light and has nothing to do with RF (radio frequency). You can convert IR signals to RF so they can be transmitted over coax cable but that's not the same thing. IR requires line of sight because it's light. Light can't pass through walls - radio waves can.

The FCC governs frequency assignments here to avoid the type of interference you encountered with your door bell and car.

As for the OP, the only legal way to control one RF device with another RF device from another vendor is to use Z wave.

ok, saying that, I search a little more on zwave. Logitech has the following for their IR reciever:

"Gain complete control of components that are hidden behind cabinets or walls. With a range of up to 100 feet, you can place your equipment out of sight, or even move it to the next room. Designed for use with the Logitech® Harmony® 1000 or 890 Advanced Universal Remotes, Z-Wave (RF) Technology enables remote control of audio, visual, lighting, climate, and security systems without direct line-of-sight. Use additional receivers to control multiple entertainment systems."

So does that mean that I can buy the 1000 or 890 and control any zwave product that using the wireless extender? Does the remote have the library codes in it or how does that work. How would I program that remote to turn on and off the lights, etc.

I would really want a remote that could turn the lights back on when I pause though. What is the best remote/setup?

[Link: uei.com]

I just dont understand why all of the good remotes dont support zwave. That remote is a universal remote with zwave. Does anyone know of any others like this that are many a little better?

Update**

Well I was reading support on logitech's site and it seems they have built in zwave and you just pair up the devices? Am I missing something or is it that easy?