I'm pretty sure you won't find a system designer on this site who would recommend modulators anymore. I think you need to either hire a real C.I. for this, or be prepared to do a ton of research to get up to speed with what happens now-a-days. No offense, but that's my 2 cents. This sound like quite a massive system, and it will be really easy to design yourself into a corner that's not easy to get out of.

I'll be distributing something similar in my new house. The sources will be a 6-zone hard disk cd server, a 400 disk DVD player, an HD DVR, a tuner, a computer with MCE on it and either an HD DVD or BluRay player. The sources are distributed into two zones with HD and digital audio, 2 zones with HD and analog audio, 9 zones of composite video and analog audio, and 3 zones of just analog audio.



You cannot modulate HD signals. You either have to distribute them over component video, RGB (or variation), DVI or HDMI. Right now, HDMI is not much of a choice and DVI is pretty expensive to run for any of the distances you'd want.
I ran 4 bundled coaxial cables (Canare V4-3C) to the HD areas for the component and composite video distribution (since not all sources are HD). I also ran a coaxial cable for digital audio to any area that required surround sound. An extra RG6 cable was run to all video zones for CATV.

Analog audio is bit different. It's hard to run unbalanced line-level audio a long distance without picking up interference. I ran speaker level audio to most zones and am using the inceiling speakers for the sound. In areas where I didn't want to use the inceiling speakers for everything, I used balanced audio. Balanced audio is normally run using twisted pair cables with a shield.

Once that is figured out, you also need to decide what you are going to use to distribute the video and audio. I'm using an Extron 3200 to distribute the video and a CM Labs Sixty Four to distribute the audio.

You will also need to determine how you are going to control the system. I'm using Crestron, but there are many other options out there. Some come with their own matrix switching equipment, some don't. Some allow you to use whatever you want, some are limited to what they will sell you. Some will sell directly to the consumer, most will only sell to a dealer.

In any case, what you are looking to do is not trivial. If you want to do it yourself, it will take quite a lot of research to get it right. The other option is to hire a local custom installer for it.

CJ

i would use a ada suite 16 with component video switching you can do component with analog audio out to your tv's then switch digital audio to your other areas as well....

you will be able to do 16x16 component with digital and anolog out of the box, then ad another suite 16 to go upto 32 outputs... really a nice setup...

i have this in my house and a in alot of my customers

as for wiring..... i would run gepco serial digital coax x 6 to all locations with 3 cat 5 as well

the cool part about the ada is you can use the tv speakers if you want in stereo... i do this for the kids flat screens where they game, office, bathroom bedrooms etc....

ed

With the emergence of digital cable and terrestrial broadcast, analog modulators are going away. In systems where the client has modulated cameras and the like, we're having real problems integrating this old stuff with the new digital cable and HD-off-satellite DSS systems.

I'm using Gepco RGBHVC250, at 1GHz sweeped rating. Nobody's noticed problems with 250' runs on HD yet... not to say there aren't some fuzzy's yet. I'd love to run farther, but I'm concerned about running 1080P in the future.

We just recently looked at 100' attenuation for it, something like 4.6 dB loss at 135MHz. Extron says stay away from anything over 3dB loss, an engineer at my firm stays away from anything over 6dB loss. At 200', that's almost 9 dB loss at 135MHz. Who's right? My engineer has a huge forehead, but Extron is trying to sell me stuff.

I've used baluns and think they are a great product and in many instances a great solution, but not in a prewired or preplanned system. Even though the coax snake is more expensive per foot than CAT5, a balun/driver solution has it's drawbacks also.

That's right and I missed that in my reply. You cannot modulate in newer DBS systems at all, or in existing digital cable systems without great difficulty. If you have confined off air or basic cable, then you can deal with modulation.

With the amount of cabling being run in this project anyway, I think it's clear that modulation is not a solution and can be considered moot at this point.

That's a very good number for a mini coax bundle! However, as I'm sure you know, you could get a bit more distance with the VHD1100 (1.4 db loss / 100 feet at 135 MHz), though it would be much harder to run.

CJ

Dude, I can lay cable. Just ask the ladies!

1.4dB is awesome, I might look at it next time.

try the vpm2000 if you already use gepco stuff... the vpm2000 is good for 3gig if i remember correctly,

yeah its not mini-coax but dam is it nice. they also come bundled in 6 or 10 conductor snakes..

I understand what everyone is saying about modulation but I'm still looking this as a short term solution. Eventually most of our TV's will be in the basement level which is probably 12 to 18 months out. For right now I need to get 6 to 7 TV's going. I won't be able to have a DirecTv receiver where the TV is so still need to centralize them at this point. I'll only have 2 receivers until the basement is done so my immediate need is to distribute 2 DTV sources plus one DVD to 6 or 7 TV's. I figure with modulation I can do this a a couple hundred bucks since I have a lot of the stuff already. So it's throwaway. What I need to figure out is what to put in the walls for the future. I did have a very lengthly conversation with a real CI on this (who consulated with me on my last house). He doesn't disagree with me that modulation might me a good short term solution. He wavers a lot about what type of cable to pull for the future, and what timeframe the future really is. We discussed mini-coax, Cat5, wireless, and the unknowns.

So if I look at doing throw away modulation for the short term, I pull one RG6 for the 6 or 7 current runs. My B&K's handle the audio and IR control throughout the house for short and long term. So what do I pull for future video to make sure I am covered, but understanding I need to still have some wood left in the walls. Also, understand that I am only pulling the one RG6 for modulation as well as the future-proof cable for the 6 or 7 locations; I can make the decision for the basment down the road.

Here are some questions to some of responses I have received.

Big Papa: you said run coax for now and also that if I can make it happen with coax that's probably the best bet. What would you run for coax? Would you run anything else?

Rolo: you also seem to be a fan of coax; what would you run?

Sound.sd: you stated you would run some RG6 along with 3-4 cat. Only one RG6? Not sure what the intent here would be.

Ceied: I looked at the Suite 16 for my last house. Really do believe it's a fantastic product. What I don't understand is how I could still use the TV speakers with this as a solution and still use the Suite 16 for typical distributed audio. You also mentioned that you would run digital coax x 6 as well as 3 cat 5. Why 6 coax?

It sounds like you are comfortable staying with the B&K for the audio, and if so you should definitely look into their video distribution product. The nice thing is that it can take your HD video sources as well as your non-HD sources (like the cameras) and upconvert them to all run on a single component feed to each display.
Even if you have TVs w/out component to use today, every LCD and plasma set has component inputs, so I would definitely consider this for the backbone...

As for the music distribution, if you have been using TuneBase controllers for all these years and know that interface well, then you should strongly consider buying the Escient Fireball music servers to house your music files. The interface is very similar, and the learning curve will be minimal.

Ask your Escient dealer to call the factory to see if they can still offer a "loyalty" style trade credit for your retired TuneBase gear toward your Fireball. Although it's not a huge amount, Escient has been known to offer this through their dealers in the past.

As fior the bundled mini-coax vs. baluns over UTP debate, I prefer bundled mini-coax when it's possible. I have used baluns, and I will caution NEVER to route a balun run through a structured wiring module (even if it is Cat 5E rated) and try not to use anything except good RJ-45 terminations anywhere the wire will be terminated.
Also, the major manufacturers of baluns all recommend "low skew" UTP cabling to acheive best results, which means that each of the pairs are set to the same twist rate.

The B&K units also have buffered outputs, so you run line level audio out of a CT602 for instance, into a local recevier or a television. Set the audio to fixed and let the local device control the audio level. You do not have to use the amps for a specific zone. Very straight forward and easy to control.

ok its real easy the 6 serial digital coax are for the following
component video(3) rgb
analog audio(2) r/w
digital aduio(1) purple

as for tv speakers it simple... your analog audio (suite 16 output) goes directly to your display audio input, on the suite 16 you set the volume output to fixed then your display has volume control via its speakers. so you wire directly from suite 16 to each display with component video and analog audio. then for your 5.1 or 7.1 areas you wire to the local source equpment with all cabling..... if you want to be trick you can still use inceiling speakers on that zone by using those from an amp to a different output on suite 16 that is set up to turn on with the display of the room you are in( sounds confusiong but its not)

as for the 3 cat 5 dvi or hdmi over cat5 future use upgrade path, rs232 control or ir control component vidio over cat 5 any number of uses.....

Oh man! Huge forehead!!! I just inhaled a few Cheerios after reading that!!! LOL oh my God!


Have run into a couple CAT5 Balun problems recently with sending Cable signals... Hmmmm... Used the Muxlab baluns...

2nd Rick, thanks for the heads up on the Escient stuff. I was very comfortable with the interface and very pleased with it. As far as the HD6 one of my concerns is the the numer of source inputs. I expect to have 6 DirecTV receivers, Escient, and DVD along with 4 cameras giving me a total of 12 and the HD6 is limited to 9. I guess I could look at doing something different with the cameras and use the HD6 for the rest. I am also very comfortable with B&K and really like their CT products. You say you prefer bundled mini-coax; have you tried Cat5 at all using the B&K LB10W Cat5 to RCA conversion module?. What bundled mini-coax do you recommend?

Roddy, from what I understand with the CT I cannot use the buffered audio out as well as speaker level out for the same zones meaning that in those zones I would need to add zones. Am I understanding this correctly?

Ceied, what product do you use for the 6 serial digital coax? On the Suite 16 can I have line level and speaker level out for the same zones?