Hi all, hoping to get some validation, encouragement, advice, or “you’re crazy” for a new project we’re undertaking. We made a decision to go into the custom home building business after I was “put out to pasture” from the company I worked at for the last 20 years. Even though my field was senior IT management I built houses in Michigan in the 70’s but moved on when interest rates reached an all-time high while at the same time the auto industry was tanking. Prior to our current endeavor we sold our custom home in the Baltimore area that was built three years ago. It’s a home that I designed but built by a well regarded custom home builder (who has given us much encouragement to enter the custom home business). We had what I considered to be a very good audio/video system at our last house and my plan is to incorporate much of the design into the current home we are building but still have some reservations and would love to get some feedback.

Last house. Audio distribution was 2 B&K CT610’s. Also used these for IR distribution (Xantech) but not for video distribution. Sources were 4 DirecTv receivers, (2) 400 disc CD changers running through an Escient TuneBase 200, DVD player, and XM. We had 17 pairs of speakers inside and 5 pairs outside that made up our 12 zones.

Video distribution was all modulated. Modulated sources were 6 DirecTv receivers, Escient , DVD player, and 4 cameras. Cameras were combination of standalone and Channel Vision doorbell cameras. The modulators and distribution equipment was a combination of Open House, Channel Plus, and Channel Vision.

All equipment was housed in Middle Atlantic racks.

Control as I mentioned above was through the CT610’s using MX-700’s. We also had one CK1.2 keypad but was not real thrilled with it. It was in the bar area where we played with the Escient a lot, but without any type of transport control it was much easier to use a remote.

Trying to transition from this setup to where I want to go now is my quandary. As far as audio, I love, love, love the B&K. The CD’s are now a thing of the past since my wife has now amassed a library of over 50,000 MP3’s.

The video is where I’m stuck. At the last place we only had one HD receiver. That was in the lower level theater where all of the equipment was housed and didn’t run through the modulated system. In the new project I would like to move HD at least a few other places but not sure where to go. I know we could go with a video matrix (even something like the B&K HD6) but that presents it’s own problems. We might have a bunch of people over for Sunday NFL and have 7 or 8 different games going on at the same time in the basement. Typically, no sound is on the TV’s but music is playing but if someone wants to get the sound for a minute for the game there are fixed on they grab the remote and turn up the volume on that TV. At the same time most of the time my wife and I are listening to music we have something on the TV for video background.

Long story short, my most immediate decision right now is what cable to pull for video. If I was modulating all video sources like before, one RG6 to each location would be sufficient but I believe if that’s all I did I would regret it in the long run.

I know this is a long post but any feedback, criticism, or advice is appreciated.

I have had good success with the HD6 using mini RGB cable, they had I believe a 1000' cat5e on display and that looked great. I have not tried this myself in the field as of yet.

As far as all the options you want to have, that is up to your imagination and your programming ability. I am not a big fan of the B&K keypad, I prefer the RTI stuff or if you can step up the client and you have access, Crestron works pretty good. lol

Modulation is a thing of the past, forget that it ever existed.

I'll think of more when the football game is over. lol

Definitely run multiple coaxes to each HD locale Mini is great or bundled 59 for longer runs 125 to 150+

For HDMI stuff, there is a nice string where i was asking folks their opinions...some people are prewiring with multiple cat 5's///I am personally not adopting it yet for reasons in the other string...

I do the following:

Distrbute mini everywhere

For little TV's 30" and less..you can (people will debate this surely) you can switch composite video through like a russound CAV 6.6 or MRC88. russound will be shipping some component switchers soon...

For bigger sets, if you are only going to have a few zones (with big tv's) (4 or so), I usually use multiple receivers and video distribution amps like Audio Authority Component splitters to share gear...

There are many control options, depending on budget...





if there will be tons of HD (and big) displays you have to ask "where do i want surround, and where Will i just have stereo"

Autopatch makes a nice line called the precis series of matrix switchers...lower priced units geared toward residential stuff...You can run stereo audio to amp channels for stereo zones. If you want digital I am pretty sure that you can get digi versions too...if you want to mix and budget is not an obstacle, then they have the modula series where you can mix stuff...



On note for real HD switching i would stick to a switching company like extron or autopatch with the proper bandwidth on their video channels...you may end up going "man this video sucks" and the whole problem is switcher bandwidth, and guys like B&k with broad lines (not specializing totally in matrices) may not realize that their gear is causing it



With more specifics on your setups, maybe I can help more specifically...

Also, these are just some of my thoughts..not necessarily a "standard" or the "best" way if that even exists...before i get flamed...


Hope its helpful...

Later

Rolo

I haven't seen any replies on using powered modules over cat5e? Now I haven't used any of these yet, but I have a Russound piece on it's way in to distribute one HD satellite to a projector and a game room plasma.
Two modules, one powered at source end, and one passive at display in. Takes component in/out. I think the rated distance is 500' over a single cat5e. I know many companies are making this.

I'll keep you posted on the results.

I dont know why, but i just dont like the HD over Cat5 Idea...I just dont feel comfortable with it...a lot of fuys with lots more experience thant me seem to like it, but I am just leery for some reason...


It is probably and ideal solution for a home with cat5 but no way to run coax, but if you can put coax in the wall ahead of time, IMHO you will be better off...run both maybe...

I know many swear by video over cat5...and Im sure its ok...im just a scaredy cat...


Later

Rolo

Don't do modulation for anything other than security cameras. It just doesn't make sense in today's marketplace.

Run coax for now, prepare for HDMI with two CAT5's or conduits in the future. HDMI matrix distribution is not settled, it's still in the Bronze Age.

Component video at 1080i or 720p is maxed at 300'. I'm guessing that 1080p (should it ever be available on component circuits) would probably max out at 200'. I haven't done calcs yet on 1080p, so take that with a grain of salt.

Using baluns can help if they are balanced and amplified, but you're adding powered parts and cost to the system as well as more connection points. If you can make it happen with coax, then that's probably the best bet.

Over what type of cable? You should be able to go quite a bit beyond this with RG6.

CJ

I second rolo's recommendations. We have some alternates to extron and autopath. Up to 8x8, component video, digital audio, analog audio.

...and "our video does not suck"™

;)

http://www.neothings.com/ for the consumer products
http://www.neoprointegrator.com/ for integrators only.

I too have been hearing more and more about cat5 with baluns. I am very tempted to try it out, but I am sure I will run some RG6 along with 3-4 cat the first time I try it (just in case)

I guess the Niles piece is nice!

I use baluns all of the time. They work great. Look into Muxlabs or Niles. If you are pre-wiring the house I would wire for both. Mini RGB and multiple Cat-5's as they can be used for more than just baluns. You never know what you are going to run into in the future or what might change when you are doing the final install.

How about the audio authority piece? AVX-661

Mini RGB is sooooo expensive though. Anyone care to email a west coast link for mini rgb at a reasonable rate.

Xantech showed a really nice HD matrix switcher/Cat 5 distribution box (model HD44CC5) at CEDIA.

It's a 4 x 4 matrix, and it switches component and Coaxial digital audio; and it only needs a single Cat 5 drop to each TV location. Main unit has loop thru to allow distribution for up to 16 zones with additional head units. MSRP is $2,000 and includes 4 receivers.

Dawn

a couple of years ago I would have built a video matrix - our go to products were either Crestron or Extron.

now, I am less enamored with the idea of building an expensive HDMI matrix, as I don't have any confidence that these technologies will last more than a few years, and would hate to not have an upgrade option in the future that didn't require massive expenditures to upgrade.

with networkable DVRs, like Tivo 3, and even Verizon's Moca based DVRs becoming prevelant, I would be more inclined today to build a nice gigabit network and have non-switched local or dedicated HD boxes to each display. using a server, NAS, or SAN, build an appropriate repository for digital content.

with this strategy, when the set top box is obsolete, out it goes an in goes the current model where limitations of the switching backbone do not come into play. just 1 more thing to consider. that being said, we still deploy at least component video matrix switches for non-HD or central HD sources, usually in the form of a CNX-PVID8x4 over CAT-5.

Thanks everyone for the responses. Was hoping to reply sooner but I guess the 20 hour days are starting to get the best of me.

Regarding audio distribution, no one has warned me against the B&K and I have seen a number of supporters on this forum so I believe I’m going to call that one a done deal.

As far as video, there is still a lot to think about. We were very happy with modulation at our last house but I am hearing the detractors here loud and clear. My dilemma is how to solve the needs of how we watch video. Let me try to layout what gets watched and where (taking into account what we last had plus what we anticipate).

Large screen HD with surround – theater, family room
Smaller screen HD, maybe with surround – master bedroom and sitting
Smaller screen, maybe HD, stereo – gym
Smaller screen, HD not required but maybe in the future, prefer sound from the TV – master bath, office, kitchen, bedroom 2,3,4, garage, pool table corner, foosball table corner, workshop, hot tub patio, kitchen deck, theater (2), back bar (4). As a note, the only absolutely required HD with surround is the one in the theater.

As you can see we have a total of 24 TV’s planned and most of them are not HD (doesn’t mean they won’t be down the road) and most of them we would prefer to get the sound directly from the TV. Some of that comes from my original post where I mentioned that a lot of times the TV is on for some type of video (sports, weather, etc.) while we are listening to music throughout the house. The other reason is when my wife is watching TV in an area such as the kitchen, office, master bath she hates getting the audio from a pair of speakers in the ceiling or the wall. She has told me over and over again that she expects the voice to be coming from the person she is looking at.

The other part of the equation is the video sources we would have. Right now I anticipate the following. DirecTv receivers (6), DVD (1 or 2), Escient or equivalent video out, cameras (4). This does not include some type of local feed or cable so I can get 8 football games using the 6 DirecTV receivers and 2 local games.

My challenge is how do I do what we are looking for with a video matrix. I know I can do it with modulators (maybe not the HD beyond the theater). My one thought is to go the modulator route for now so I can at least give us what we had in our last house but install the proper cable to protect us down the road as some of the existing and newer technologies take hold.