We all have them... and I won't go into too much detail as it may just seem like a repeat of what we all go through and make for boring reading. Basically, the client came to me from my best builder and my top cabinet maker. Every sub on the job is ready to kill these people. They'll OK a 20K upgrade on floors like its nothing and then pick apart a $20.00 line item. They use people for all sorts of ideas and design and then act like that time should be free and complain about the bills. My end is being handled by their 20 something son who now feels that he can cut into labor rates by doing some of the work himself. Standard expanations do not work with this spoiled brat. I'd kick him in the ass but i'm afraid I'd injure my foot on the silver spoon stuck up there.

I've been paid for my pre-wire. He tried to cut corners on the money and I went ahead and stuck in all of the necessary wiring and everything I thought might be necessary as there is NO way to retro this place. He was mad that I used the entire pre-wire budget and then told me I must be a poor businessman to have under bid? (no thanks for looking out for his dumb ass). Now that we need to design the system (meaning I haven't given him a shopping list) he wants to buy all of his stuff from a local retailer and change specs. He cried about the fact that my Bay Audio rings will not fit the B&Ws he now wants... it goes on and on.

Today he will call to let me know just what he wants and I'm sure his idea of my involvement will not in any way be profitable for my company... so I will be performing a firing of a client. I'm in a good position... if I never go back I haven't lost any money or any more sanity. What troubles me is that I'd be deserting my builder and my cabinet guy who I have ultimate respect for. Knowing that the competitor in town who sells B&W has a reputation for covering up their lack of structured wire knowledge by claiming that everyone elses work is shite, I hate exposing them to my builder. I don't want to just be install boy for their products though and then have my labor pricing picked apart when it comes time to collect.

OK... now I've gone on longer than I wanted to. If you are still here... What do you say to your builder and cabinet guy to save your relationship knowing they can't leave and that you'll kind of be screwing them? I know what I'm going to say to the client (no it won't be f--k you and anyone who looks like you... even though that came to mind).

Don't budge on your price and let the client fire you.

The builder and client may even respect you in the morning.

I lost a major builder account over a customer like this. Are you willing to lose this account?

If you have worked for this builder for any amount of time, he should know how you operate and have taken care of him and his past clients. I am assuming he has an idea of what this customer is doing to you. I had a job about 6 months ago that was similar to what you describe. I walked away from the job and yet my builder stuck up for me. He understood the situation and when it was all said and done, he filled me in what happened after I left. Customers son really hosed up the job and my builder told him to rehire me to correct the problems he created. For a nominal fee +!!!
To this day I still do all of this builders work. My saving grace is that I always keep my builder abreast of problems that crop up. He will always back me up. It does help that he feels that this customer was a royal PITA, even to him.

As you describe above, he is your best builder and your best cabinet guy. As long as you keep communications open and let your builder know whats happening, I would not worry about your builder not backing you up.
The key here is "Keep your builder in the know, ALWAYS!!"

I agree with avophiliac. In the end the builder & cabinet guy should understand you point of view more than the homebuyer. I know that they will be mad for you deserting them and leaving them to handle the customer alone, but in the end (if they are any good) will see the light and come back to you.

I have a builder that used me all the time. I had a price increase last year, so he shopped me. Couldn't find anyone cheaper and needed a job done right away. The H/O was a piece of work. Couldn't remember what color tile she picked 5 minutes after picking it. Went nuts over my bid (10 phone, 15 TV, alarm, central vac, 4 zone A-Bus, etc., etc.) She tells the builder that she just wants the vac from me. She will find someone else to do the rest. This is in St. Louis County and requires a license and permit to be pulled. We do our stuff, but the guy she gets doesn't have a license. Long story short I have the builder back and he refuses to let the buyer bring in anyone else.

Alot of really good advice. The builders that I work for would back me 100%. As mentioned above, I always keep them abreast of what's going on.

Since you are in a situation where you are not owed any money and it doesn’t sound like you have a contract for the job then you need to negotiate terms that work for you. Explain to the customer ( Papa not Junior) that you provide full systems. If they don’t want a full system from you and just want you to install OFE either decline to do it or up your labor so that it is profitable for you. CYA if you do just the install. Get part of the money up front and bill for work as progress is made, don’t wait for it all at the end. Get it in writing that you are on a T&M basis and warranty only that the work will be performed in a neat and workman like manner. You are not responsible for the performance of the system, interoperability of components, components in the system, or ease of use. Make the builder and cabinet maker aware of these discussions. Other people in the trades will understand your position and if the customer is unwilling to be reasonable they will understand you walking. You mentioned the B&W dealer badmouthing others, how is their work? The only possible problem from walking is if that dealer does great work and takes care of the builder, then you might be in trouble.

Is this guy down south (Kent area) & of Middle Eastern decent?

Nope... job's in Kingston.

I spoke with my builder and he understands... he REALLY understands (poor bastard would love the chance to do what I might do) Junior left enough of my equipment in to make it worthwhile and I actually called my competitor to get us both on the same page. He'll sell equipment but decline the install. I'll sell around 10K of equipment and do all of the work but warranty none of his components. The kid will be buying all his LCDs on the internet and the contract says... "good luck... we bill by the hour and the warranty issues are YOURS baby. I have not yet backed out and won't as long as it works out the way I want... if not, thank god for enough work in the book.

I guess I was premature in worrying about it... and Soundsgood's point about the competitor doing good work and dissing me to my builder was on my mind... especially if he'd felt I left him high and dry.

Thanks for the input.

I have a client that freakin' called me at 9:45 last night because he couldnt use executive call override on the wireless phones in his Panasonic system. I'm not sure we ever programmed this feature in for the wireless phones and now (after 6 months) its critical and they can't use their phone system.

There is a lot to this story that I won't share, but suffice to say that he is not only the worst client I have, but the worst that the builder and other trades also have.

I have a feeling that if the guy is making it hard for you, he's probably making it hard for the builder and cabinet maker and other trades too. Hopefully they'll consider you lucky for getting out.

I should have seen the writing on the wall and not done the stupid $12k phone system. Someone else got all the other electronics in the house (which I'm actually glad I didn't get). You should see the sh1tbag theater the guy got. LOL!

9:45? that's early...

I usually get home around 11:30 PM.

My builder does consider me lucky and the cabinet guy and electricians are good friends so they understand. Looks like I'll be doing it anyway and me and the competitor will both get enough to make it worth our whiles. Gut tells me its still goin to be a bit trying but all of the subs are commisserating on this one and we've all kind of banded together... no one's doing free work anymore. My cabinets guy has gone lawyer style and is billing for faxes and phone time!

After that last post - run fast. nothing to gain and everything to loose. I'd only do it if nothing was on the books and was bored as hell

There is stuff on the books but it seems like theres never enough to keep all of the guys busy and leave some kind of paltry salary for me.

This won't be our most favorite job but it will bring in money. If i was a one man show I would certainly turn it down.

That's is where I am very very fortunate. We are small with 3 total employees. I am the only one involved in the AV end. I am the salesmen, wire puller, lead installer and bill collector.

did you guys read the article in CEPro about top companies? I was shocked at the sales per employee. Some seemed staggering low.