Give Clients What They Need, Not What They Ask For.

Of all the freakin' gall, ego, and self-importance!

There is a set of large, connected monolithic buildings in West Hollywood called the Pacific Design Center. The original building is generally known as the big blue whale. I think this is so because it has all of the design appeal of a big blue whale. And it's blue. All tenants are designers or purveyors of fine furniture, carpet, materials for custom use. There's even an audio/video company in there.

This place is so exclusive that, for several years, the general public was not allowed in. Apparently the economy slumped quite a bit for high fashion around here, because now there are not only substantial amounts of empty space in the building, but anyone can walk in.

In the center of its rear building, there is a round information/security booth. I was there yesterday and noticed the message scrolling around the outside of this booth. In that message was the title of this thread.

Doesn't this just put in one short phrase every difficulty we have ever had with designers, who think they know best, even to the point of saying, for instance, that there should not be a center speaker in this and such installation? Isn't this the attitude that makes you want to scream, or, in more peaceful moments, simply makes you insist that you will only deal with the homeowner?

Comments, please.

You deal with designers on systems with no access to the client? Ouch. What your clients need is your direct input without the filter of the designer.

I used to do work for a designer who would not let me talk with the clients. She insisted on a "retainer" from me on the later jobs, and then told me to keep the overall system budget down in order to keep more cash left over for furniture, where she made more money. She also stared designing my lighting control system on a big project. At that point we parted company.

I have only had limited dealings with interior decorators, and have only seen two actually finish the job. One of those was also the H/O. Usually the H/O gets ticked off at the out of control budget, or they simple split ways becuase each had a different "vision" of the space.

I have only been on the verge of actually strangling on one designer, and I wasn't the only one on the job. She was one of those that actually questioned the need for speakers in the theater room. Not a particular speaker, but ALL of them. The husband took care of that one.

My favorite was the designer that called to get me to bid all of this stuff for a house. Then when we do the walkthrough and I show her how big the product will be and where it will go, ended up not doing anything at all with me. Usually this wouldn't bother me, but I had rearranged a whole weeks worth of work so I could concentrate on this job alone.

But back to the original subject. I find it humurious that this sign would be in a designers building. My experience has been that they never give the client either what they want or need. They are like the ones on Trading Spaces that have an idea in mind before they even meet with the H/O and you are just there to watch.

I think this has been discussed before, but there is an element of truth in that quote. It's not uncommon to discover what the client needs/wants and what they ask for are two different things. This discrepancy or gap is usually caused by external factors. Who's to say that after a visit to Best Buy or what ever chain or some TV ad that the client has got a particular technology in mind that, but in the long term it will not suite their needs.

The only way you can truely understand what a client needs is by talking to them and asking the appropriate questions during the intervue process to determine what they need, so that you can seperate needs from wants. But the real truth is everything a designer or custom integrator does does not take care of needs (i.e. basic) , we can only take care of the wants part of their life. However, at the end of the process, hopefully I can determine what client wants and have convinced the client that they really need it.

Just my .02

Cheers

i hate designers.... most of you heard my designer horror story....

it got worse... she f'ed 2 more of her clients, and one of them is going after her pretty hard.

a designed is just that...make the shit look prettty and i'll jmake it function...but some think they can do our job.... gimme a break

ed

i had a heart to heart last week with the customer the designer screwed over. he was glad i told the designer to stop talking so i can hear what he wants. his 30k job has hit almost 100k and he's very happy.

ed

I have found over the years in my midfi life that most people I deal with would rather things look nice over just a little better quality sound.

With this in mind, when I consult, I'll give the homeowner options that include that of a primadonna designer. I'll start by saying, "..in a perfect world of sound, this is where you ought to have your speakers and they would look something like this.." I would continue on ".. but if you'd rather things look a little nicer AND don't mind getting a ticket from the audio police we can make this work too.."

Probably 50% of the designers I've worked directly with are halfwitted egomaniacs that see A/V as scurge. I'll take clients aside in most cases and tell them what I think. However, most clients fear/respect these clowns too much to dis them. When was the last time you actually saw one get fired?? So I just let the client know in no uncertain terms that form will overtake function and that we will do the best with what we have to work with. Surprisingly, most clients are perfectly aggreable when my recommendation didn't count - even when volumes & pads are in the wrong place, the picture stinks and the system sounds sound like crap - while the overall meshing of both worlds pleases them.

Make them happy - or at least as happy as they can possibly be. I don't think their slogan or mantra does either.

Was doing a walk thru not too long ago with one of these ultra-snooty architects... Part of the way thru this walk thru, after locating keypads and ceiling speakers the architect he commented on what a shame it was that the home owner would have to live with all of the "Wall Acne". (He was referring to the keypads).

He then proceeded to comment on how "white trash" it was to have music throughout the residence, and how tacky it was to have a drop down screen and projector in their den.

I finally asked him who the house was for... him or the Home Owner?

A funny story about a "designer".

Builder I was working with was building one of those high end, "magazine", houses.

House beautiful, Southern Living or some such tripe.

Anyway, the "designer comes in and runs all over everyone. This piece of furniture here, that one there, little nakins and plates hither and yon.

I get a call to fire up the audio system and walk into this mess. Not only are the volume controls covered in most locations by some silk/plastic plants, the door to the deck is blocked by the oversized sofas.

I ask the builder which idiot placed the furniture so the doors to the deck couldn't be opened, or used.

Of course this snooty bitch just happened to be standing right there.....lol

Thought I'd die from frostbite......

I pulled the sofa out of the way, opened the door, turned on the deck speakers and left via the deck stairs....The builder was laughing his ass off....

I reality, it's your job to tell then what they need, and do it convincingly enough that they see the light.

if they still choose to ignore your advice, then you have either failed, or they are bone headed. Either way, you will be on record as having offered the proper direction.

The whole designer / decorator / project manager issue is another issue, and it has been discussed on previous threads. If you can't make your appeal through the designer, or if you feel that your concerns are being ignored in place of aesthetic or architectural priorities, then you need to be on written record about your concerns. But it doesn't really matter if you are being hired by the designer / decorator/ archtict, or project manager. The buck stops with them if they have taken on the role of AV decision maker. it's wole different ball game if the woner has selected you.

Is there not a similiar concept that some in our business practice? I had this conversation with the infamous Kangis last night when he suggested that he never provides line items but solutions.

Mr. K: " Is listening to AM radio important to you? "

Mr. Client: " Most Certainly. I must listen to the minor league BlackSox baseball team. Also listening Drugie Digbat is essential to maintaining my good humor. "

Kangis then includes $1800 in Crestron AM and FM tuners for this solution. He does not provide a line item for this but links this under the same rubric as this design house's slogan. Do not many of us install centralized video, control systems, lighting systems because we "know" what systems a house of a certain size " needs?" Does not every client "need" everything we sell?

Alan

My .02...

7 out of 10 clients want the same thing:

1. A really cool system.
2. Easy to use.
3. Nothing visible (except the TV screen...)

The other three want to see the speakers.

Everything else is negotiation.

Got to love that "Vision" thing. Was talking with a H/O and Designer about a 3M condo, and the H/O asked about blinds. I started talking about Sevoia from Lutron, and quickly was interupted by the designer who said she" invisioned plantation shutters". The H/O was like.. "Oh you do now". I think that may have been the last time I will see that designer...

Went to a site meeting recently re: proposing on a wholehouse audio/video system. I noticed that the home was in an advanced stage of construction. I looked on the electrical drawing and noticed there were no conduits in place for a/v.
When I asked about the lack of conduits, the architect jumped in and advised me that the client wanted a wireless system. This house is all concrete & steel ( most houses in Jamaica are). I explained to him that wireless was a no no especially in a concrete & steel environment. He went on to tell the meeting that he attended a trade show in Miami 1 year ago and a presenter there told him that in 6 months all electronic devices would be able to work wirelessly. The client did not ask for a wireless system,
he just wanted wholehouse audio/video but the architect decided he would be getting a wireless system. ( hence no planning for conduits)

The architect advised me that if I could not pull off the job he could find a lot of outfits in Miami that would be able to. Apparently he plans to trasmit 117 volts wirelessly to the speaker locations because there are no electrical outlets at most of the proposed speaker locations

Time to say "see ya". Oh, and good luck.