I guess these expensive systems you are reffering to actually download the DVD onto their hard drives terabyte type (1000 Gigs) and can hold a lot of DVDs I see downsides there but yes they must be quicker than changer based systems. But how about accessing are both systems equal there...if I know exactly what I want I can take it off the shelf and stick it in my DVD player and there it is. I guess I want it to do my thinking for me...weird huh.

That is what I meant by downsides!!

actually no. because blue ray and hd dvd will be supported by xperinet... all i have to do is ad theproper drive.... and the software firmware version upgrade....

as technology changes there will be additional costs...but that has always been the way...otherwise we would be watching little screen black and white TVs

yeah the xperinet is a server based system raid 5 to be exact...... load all movies onto harddrive then instant access.... take dvd's and put them in storage..... or whatever you need to..... draw back with escient system is it requires a dvd changer player and man are those slow... and dont take the dvd out of the player cuz all hell will break loose

ed

The only problem I have ever seen with taking a DVD out is if you take it out and put a different one in the exact same slot without letting the changer to a quick lookup first (close, wait 30 or so seconds). The reason for this, is because it'll do a quick lookup and see that a DVD is still in that slot. It'll assume it is the same DVD and not look at the TOC. I prefer this over having it check the TOC of every DVD, everytime it does a lookup (time consuming). what's so hard about putting the DVD in a slot that was previously empty, or if the changer is plum full, A-add a second one, or B- let it do it's quick lookup and recognize that DVD A has been pulled then open it backup and put DVD B in. As far as lookup time, it's not slow at all. The movie is typically on the screen in about 30 seconds. Again, not to diss the drive based systems...they are incredible, but typically their price tags are also.

I hear you ed all kind of downsides with a changer (although you would think Sony would do a better job but that is probably why they are getting their butt kicked by everyone including Apple) but these high cost systems throw everything out of whack
are people using these systems with their theater in-a-box set-ups or are they using Theta, Krell etc.

Tom

If you have a single player and a shelf full of discs, you are right there with the majority of the public...

As you add automation, you pay for convenience every step of the way...

If you just go out and pick up a Sony mega changer and expect to use the internal DiscExplorer function, think twice about that... It sucks, even if you religiously title your discs and capture the little thumbnail image of the menu as you add them with a keyboard or the long way with the alphanumeric commands on the remote. One power outage and the hard work is gone, many of the Columbia titles will auto-recognize, but the rest of the ones you keyed in are lost...

Next step.
DVD Managers (aka Changer Controllers)
The Escient DVDM and Request VRQ are pretty similar overall, each with their pros and cons.

The VRQ pros: bulletproof IR, serial, and IP webserver control. The graphics are high res. through the component or VGA outs.
Cons: It requires an outboard switcher, and has an interface that is different than their Audio Reqest servers. You have to add your own cover art for the majority of the DVDs you put in, this is easy (you can snatch them from Amazon) but it can be VERY time consuming.
It used to be that you had to attach cover art to everything manually, but I believe they have inked the deals to have some of the studios' artwork auto-load now like the Escient.

Escient DVDM pros: has internal switching, similar interface to the audio version, and the upper models have a HD for a single zone of audio built in. Cover art auto load.
Cons: The IR is seriously improved over previous generations, but is not as bulletproof as the VRQ. The graphics (and cover art) does not seem to be as crisp as the VRQ, they are probably still interlaced.

Having either of these controllers makes life really easy compared to trying to figure out where the Hell the 3rd disc of Sopranos Season two might be located in your changers...
Is it slow?? Compared to a server it is noticably slower, and you are still navigating a disc. Compared to shuttling through a changer or rifling through the media on your shelves, it is a convenient and quick way to access your collection.

As for the servers, AMX Max, Kaliedescape, XPerinet, and Niveus seem to be the major players. Max and K-Scape are proprietary, and seem to be bulletproof at a VERY high cost.

The XPerinet and Niveus stream files that you rip into the internal HD using a third party Codec that you also have to set up. Depending on the quality of the recommended Codec, and how well it deals with the individual discs, your mileage may vary... I would imaging that the studios will be throwing protection fixes at these Codecs as time goes by.

As for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.
I would speculate that a mega changer would be coming shortly after the single players hit, and with that comes the opportunity for a controller from players like Escient and Request.
Whether they add the new changers to the current controllers, or start over with new models, it should come along pretty quickly.

Servers streaming the high def content will have to deal with the lawyers and the wrath of the Hollywood machine. I would bet that they will throw SERIOUS litigation at everyone who blinks in an attempt to keep content of this quality off of servers and only on the original discs.

2nd Rick,

The legal side is exactly what I was talking about regarding hard disk units. The "new drives" and "firmware upgrades" are vaporware right now. Who knows how long it will actually take the legal process. Anyone remember Theatris from Cedia about 3 or 4 years ago, they talked to us at length about their legal approach and they lasted all about until the end of the show. I had a 400 disc DVD, used it twice, boxed it up and put it in the basement to die. I will have to wait and see what happens with the digital storage solutions when the HD DVDs are shipping.

Thanks 2nd Rick I think you have said it all. It is up to the indivdual to determine what he can live with and what he can afford. Most importantly will you use it often enough to make it worth while. Boys and their toys. I love it.

Tom

my system is an ADA cinema reference with some rbh speakers an ada amp etc suite 16 with component video......so same level as krell and theta

my customers system is a whole house sound system with 16x16 component switchingwith 6 lcd / plasma and a theater room coming soon....

again all ada euipment for that customer.....

my other one is also on an ada system....

i see a trend here......

i have one scheduled to go into a cheap system.... receiver/ plasma onwall speakers 1 zone this is not ada equipment.

putting one on my boat to demo to fellow boaters..... 24" lcd and clairion marine head unit..... or the cheap speakers on the lcd tv.

average income of these people would be around $300k or so, so not to high end. my income is significantly less than those of my customers.....

i see where the xperinet pricing will let those people at $100k income afford this luxury

ed

kinda like if the guy can afford a 30k pick-up and a 30k bass boat he can afford an xperinet

I hear ya ed!
Tom

I have sold a couple of VRQs before the Escient product was shipping...
and yes, I went through all of the bugs, loading the cover art manualy, and the hours of grooming of the database to clean up the TV show box sets...

I have been considering selling a couple of the Escient SED-1's to some clients I have who have more modest systems.

Either way, whether your are a hardcore server guy (like Ed), or a controller guy, I think that ANY type of DVD server or controller would be among the best investments in HT hardware that the average person could make to allow more convenient use if their HT.

rick,

i agree.... something is better than nothing


ed

The other difference between server based and changer based systems is multiple stream. The Escients don't do it. Period. The Elan DVDj will stream multiple movies, one per changer attached to system, so you need to know what is on each changer. With the Xperinet, a client in a second room (or third, or fourth etc) can stream the same or another movie from the main server. Don't remember the number of streams for each model, but it is multiple. Also, the Xperinet does audio as well and has a 5 stream client available. It is a very cool system!