Did anyone see the surge protector the AV guys used on the This Old House "Cambridge modern" that just ended? It was a HUGE copper transformer of some sort wall mounted in the basement. Must have weighed 80-100 pounds (just guessing from looking at it). Just wondering...

I'll take a different track here as I do believe in the filtering side. We spec in Panamax primarily due to brownouts. When the juice kicks back on you get a surge that can (and has) kill gear. Expensive gear. We upped to filtering after I decided to play with it in my own theater. I absolutely experienced an improvement in picture quality (fewer mosquitos) and it also opened up the depth of my soundstage. While difficult to quantify, I recommend it.

I use a Liebert Powermate 5kva unit I found at a pawn shop.

Did anyone see this yesterday? It came in on our PanaMax dealer e-list.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

For Immediate Release February 23, 2006 Petaluma, CA

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Panamax Acquires Furman Sound, Inc.

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An engineering leader in power for music/recording industry, Furman

will complement Panamax within growing Home Technology Group.

Over 60 years of power engineering are about to come together in Petaluma, CA. Panamax (founded 1975) has acquired Furman Sound, Inc. (founded 1974), in a move that will complement each other’s offerings and expand the growing family of companies in the Home Technology Group of Linear LLC (Carlsbad, CA). No terms of the purchase were disclosed. Widely known for its innovative AC power conditioning and distribution products, Furman also makes audio and video signal processors, a line the company was founded upon in 1974.

Bill Pollock, President of Panamax, states “My team and I are excited about the growth potential for both companies that this engineering partnership will allow. We believe that the advantages of a strong group, especially one with world-class engineering and electronics manufacturing operations, will increase our ability to bring new and innovative products to our global customer base. As a privately held, 30 year old company Panamax has always been responsive to changes in our economy, customers and product environment. Bringing these two leaders together under one roof, will allow us numerous opportunities to help our customers grow profitable businesses.”

According to Grant D. Rummell, Chairman of Linear, “Furman is a great fit within our Home Technology Group. Its offerings neatly dovetail with those of Panamax and expand our reach beyond the residential market and into the music industry.”

“Our technologies and products are very complementary, and that means we will be in a position to give our customers exactly the right solutions for their particular needs, said Dave Keller, Executive Vice President of Sales and Marketing for Furman. “The bringing together of Furman and Panamax is a perfect marriage.”

Furman Sound was founded on sales of high-quality audio and video signal processors for professional audio/video products including sound reinforcement, home and professional recording, post production, broadcast systems, telecommunications, and data processing. They expanded their product line and market segment in 2001 to include what has become a highly acclaimed CE line which incorporates a complete line of AC power management products specifically engineered for today's home theater systems.

Panamax makes a wide range of innovative and award winning power conditioning products for home theater electronics, high definition cable and satellite TV systems, household appliances, office equipment, and related electrical systems. The Max home theater component family of products is its flagship line that provides clean power and improves picture quality. The patented Max In-Wall brand is its line of superior design, easy plug-in panels for code-compliant installation of plasma screen TVs.

If you have any questions, please contact your Panamax Account Manager.

Go with the Panamax. Fruman was just bought out by them. Furman is also a lot more expensive. At the CES show in las Vegas (Jan 2005)Panamax ran some very high current spikes into the Panamax, Fruman and Monster products. Monster caught on fire, sprinkers went off and law suits started. Furman perfromed much better but did not acknolwedge the spike caused damadge. Panamax had no problem.

Models depend on what you need to filter. For audio niose start with the 4300ex and below should be helpful. If you need video filtering you need to start with the 5100ex and go up depending on what type of problem you have.

Interesting thread,
I have been trying to decide which type of protection is better after reading about series mode recently.
Is series mode intended to protect against surges only or RF interference as well?

I am very interested in learning more. I am familiar with industrial type EMI filters as well as MOVs. I had always thought that the "better" protective devices would incorporate both MOVs and EMI filters.

What is confusing me now is the fact that series mode protection devices do not reference ground at all (from my limited reading on them). I can see where this is good from the standpoint of preventing ground contamination. How do these types of devices protect again common mode noise or transients? I was taught that capacitors from each line to ground were required for this yet the series mode have none? Most industrial EMI filters I have been exposed to do have caps from each line to ground.

Do the manufacturers of the series mode devices state test results in terms of both differential and common mode noise attenutation?
I am no expert. I thought I knew a few things and now I am a bit confused and I am always wanting to learn more.


Regards,
Ela

I purposely let this go but as it has come up again I think it's time to add some more of my thoughts on the subject


Yes and no. Series mode uses electronics to track the voltage but the module that is actually absorbing the hit has a MUCH higher lifespan than any $0.25 MOV. Estimated lifespan in Florida is a minimum of ten years and for the majority of the country it is limitless. Please keep in mind that the last time I asked about it New Frontiers had yet to have a single documented failure of their device. If I search these pages I can find dozens of recorded failures of MOV devices. I do realize that in many cases the device did protect the equipment but the unit itself still failed.


I can't completely agree with this. I have customers who have had the MOV protectors put on the meter or the main panel absolutely blast off like a rocket from a major hit. The pulse that's used for the A-1-1 rating also can turn a mov into an explosive device. I've seen a Pan***ax or two cracked, blackened and burnt from lightning and we have ALL seen the cheaper veriety with the burn marks on the cheap plastic surge strips just from daily pulses from within the house, not storm damage. That's why we went to 1449-2, because MOVs get hot just from normal daily surges.

The voltage and amperage used for the A-1-1 testing is used in part due to the fact that it also happens to be the rating for NM-B sheathed cable. Again I would suggest that you look at 1449 adjunct testing, not listing. There is a reason most of these companies don't present the product for testing. It simply can't compete.


I don't have the engineering backround that I believe you do, but this leads me to believe that you misunderstand series mode technology. A product from New Frontiers will never break the path at all. It simply absorbs the hit.
"SurgeX is tested to Grade A, Class 1 Mode 1 of UL 1449-2 Adjunct Endurance Testing: 1000 surges of 6000 Volts and 3000 Amps."

think about that number. And that's not disconnecting or shutting of your gear. That's saying it will continue to operate normaly to the point that your romex catches on fire.


It's true that New Frontiers does not offer a solution for low voltage situations. You are left with using an MOV device or gas tubes for the low voltage. However, as you point out, the primary point of concern for low voltage is the point of entrance. That's not always the case for high voltage. I often use an MOV device at the service point and make sure that everything is very well grounded. New Frontiers will sometimes even admit that if you are going to use an MOV device, this is the place for it. Any ground contamination will be short lived before it hits the servcie ground. From a marketing stand point they are left with a dilemma. How do you say that MOVs aren't so bad at the service point for low voltage but nowhere else? The official company line is that if the incoming cable and phone line are properly grounded then you shouldn't have a problem and if you do it's the utility that's responsible for damage, which is true. But for us it's a hard sell. so I use a combination that I belive best serves my clients.

I still contend that when you look at the supperior voltage tracking, supperior noise filtering and vastly supperior surge protection that you get out of a $330 box from New Frontier that it becomes a no brainer on just about any of the systems we do, except for simple bedroom TV. And in that case I usually use a 20amp NERT and just have the electician wire all of the small system locations back to it. Now I've protected several small systems for $400.

There will always be room for the more popular MOV devices. I found this product because I wasn't entirely happy with MOV boxes and I wanted a better mouse trap. Series mode does have it's limitations but for what it does do, it does it better than the rest.

I've made this disclaimer before and I'll make it again. These guys are local so I've had the oportunity to get much deeper into the technology than you would on a typical internet search. I don't work for them but they do believe in the product and have backed up every answer with data.

Sorry to stir things up again.

I was hoping to learn something new. Since I started reading about series mode protection I have became very interested. For the most part I like what I read. For me it comes down to whether or not you believe common mode surges are a real threat. The series mode folks seem to dismiss common mode as a threat and they do not appear to protect against it.

All these companies are biased towards their design.
I liked this from PowerVar:

[Link: powervar.com]

It appears that the UL1449 standard does not talk much about common mode either.
I can tell you that Industrial Surge testing has a very specific requirement to test both normal and common mode. For sure an industrial environment is more severe than the home but I do believe that common mode can still be an issue there.

I do not know which manufacturer has claims to protect against both but that is where I would put my money.

Regards,
Ela

ELA,

It does not look to me like powervar is the series mode that I know of. the patent for series mode is pretty closely held. In the audio arena It is primarily available for New Frontiers. I know Adcom had the licensing for awhile but I don't know if they are doing anything with it. Brick wall is the only other comany I know of using the patent in the audio world. I know it is availbe in industrial arenas but I don't know from who.

Just to reiterate. UL1449 is more the safety rating than a performance rating. Incidently several pieces that get touted as power conditioners aren't even UL1449 rated. They are listed as audio devices. It is the UL1449-2 adjunct testing that is the performance rating for actual surge test conditions.

If you have an issue with the technology I would suggest you call New Frontiers and see if you can get the engineer on the phone. That used to be pretty easy to do but I don't know if it as easy as it used to be.

As a side note I was at an A**D training last year were Pan**x was one of the trainings. As luck would have it I was called on to help with the demo in front of the group. Not to be racially insensitive but this is sort of like asking Mr. King to give a talk on the benefits of the KKK. For the few in the know it was quite comical.