I purposely let this go but as it has come up again I think it's time to add some more of my thoughts on the subject
On February 22, 2006 at 08:52, bcf1963 said...
The semiconductors in the Surgex will have taken
wear after severals hits, and there's no gas gauge
on that unit either.
Yes and no. Series mode uses electronics to track the voltage but the module that is actually absorbing the hit has a MUCH higher lifespan than any $0.25 MOV. Estimated lifespan in Florida is a minimum of ten years and for the majority of the country it is limitless. Please keep in mind that the last time I asked about it New Frontiers had yet to have a single documented failure of their device. If I search these pages I can find dozens of recorded failures of MOV devices. I do realize that in many cases the device did protect the equipment but the unit itself still failed.
As far as the MOV turning into a bomb... For the
MOV to provide any explosive force, you would
need containment and a buildup of pressure. Bomb
is a dramatic word... but a real poor example
of what will happen in this situation. The MOV
when it fails will barely give off a puff of smoke
large enough to be noticed.
I can't completely agree with this. I have customers who have had the MOV protectors put on the meter or the main panel absolutely blast off like a rocket from a major hit. The pulse that's used for the A-1-1 rating also can turn a mov into an explosive device. I've seen a Pan***ax or two cracked, blackened and burnt from lightning and we have ALL seen the cheaper veriety with the burn marks on the cheap plastic surge strips just from daily pulses from within the house, not storm damage. That's why we went to 1449-2, because MOVs get hot just from normal daily surges.
The voltage and amperage used for the A-1-1 testing is used in part due to the fact that it also happens to be the rating for NM-B sheathed cable. Again I would suggest that you look at 1449 adjunct testing, not listing. There is a reason most of these companies don't present the product for testing. It simply can't compete.
Either I or you misunderstand something here.
The surgex can break the path, but it can't do
so before the voltage is already rising. One
hit good enough to do some good damage will jump
right over the spacing of the kind of series element
semiconductors they use. If the lightning strike
is enough energy to blow the MOV, I propose that
it will ionize the air, and jump the gap of the
series protection elements in the surgex. That's
part of the reason I believe the surgex is overkill.
I don't have the engineering backround that I believe you do, but this leads me to believe that you misunderstand series mode technology. A product from New Frontiers will never break the path at all. It simply absorbs the hit.
"SurgeX is tested to Grade A, Class 1 Mode 1 of UL 1449-2 Adjunct Endurance Testing: 1000 surges of 6000 Volts and 3000 Amps."
think about that number. And that's not disconnecting or shutting of your gear. That's saying it will continue to operate normaly to the point that your romex catches on fire.
Some commercial issues are a totally different
issue. The most likely place for lightning to
hit a residence is the electrical service entrance,
or the entrance from a dish or antenna. The surgex
will do a nice job on the power, and leave the
other unprotected. You'll end up using MOV's
on the other likely entry points, as surgex doesn't
have a solution for these. Then you have two
different surge protection manufacturers each
pointing their finger at each other, and nothing
gets paid out. I'd rather put MOV's from a single
manufacturer in all locations, and let them pick
up the bill if/when something is damaged.
It's true that New Frontiers does not offer a solution for low voltage situations. You are left with using an MOV device or gas tubes for the low voltage. However, as you point out, the primary point of concern for low voltage is the point of entrance. That's not always the case for high voltage. I often use an MOV device at the service point and make sure that everything is very well grounded. New Frontiers will sometimes even admit that if you are going to use an MOV device, this is the place for it. Any ground contamination will be short lived before it hits the servcie ground. From a marketing stand point they are left with a dilemma. How do you say that MOVs aren't so bad at the service point for low voltage but nowhere else? The official company line is that if the incoming cable and phone line are properly grounded then you shouldn't have a problem and if you do it's the utility that's responsible for damage, which is true. But for us it's a hard sell. so I use a combination that I belive best serves my clients.
I still contend that when you look at the supperior voltage tracking, supperior noise filtering and vastly supperior surge protection that you get out of a $330 box from New Frontier that it becomes a no brainer on just about any of the systems we do, except for simple bedroom TV. And in that case I usually use a 20amp NERT and just have the electician wire all of the small system locations back to it. Now I've protected several small systems for $400.
There will always be room for the more popular MOV devices. I found this product because I wasn't entirely happy with MOV boxes and I wanted a better mouse trap. Series mode does have it's limitations but for what it does do, it does it better than the rest.
I've made this disclaimer before and I'll make it again. These guys are local so I've had the oportunity to get much deeper into the technology than you would on a typical internet search. I don't work for them but they do believe in the product and have backed up every answer with data.
Last edited by Ted Wetzel
on April 14, 2006 20:10.
