Hey Guys,

I've been looking at the 70" JVC DILA. Anyone have any experience with this set? Is it a good choice? I need a set that I can connect up to my computer, and also watch HDTV programming. I need something that isn't going to break the bank with replacement bulbs every 3-6 months like my current set. I use this set 18-24hrs a day, so a 6000 hr bulb only lasts me approx. 9 months if I get full life out of it which I still haven't seen out of my current set. The latest bulb died 2 weeks after the warranty expired, and they cost 400 dollars a piece. There was only 1800 hrs on the bulb. Anyways, I'm up for suggestions for a good set from 5 to 10 thousand dollars for theater/computer use that is going to be reliable. I wasn't about to buy anything else until I talked to you guys.

PS... Is there anything using LED bulbs? Is plasma a safe choice for computer use if you turn it off when you're finished using the computer or use a screen saver. I would power down something when I wasn't using it if it didn't take forever to power up and down like my DLP. That would cut the usage waaayyy down.

Thanks,
Mark

This message was edited by Marky_Mark896 on 05/18/05 07:24 ET.

Bump

Epson RPTV, only downfall is its only 57" I have heard good things about the JVC in image quality but it is still a JVC, I am sure it may have issues like there other sets down the road.

The AVS geeks love the new HD-ILAs... they even have an "official" dedicated thread.

They report that the banding issues of the first gen model are resolved.

The best part is...
THEY ARE AVAILABLE IN BLACK!!!

Yay!!

BTW, this isn't a popular thing to say here, but I am fearful of the strong possibility of service nightmares on single chip DLP.
Even if the rainbow isn't apparent, and it does bother me, I am more fearful that the spinning wheel may not spin that strongly forever...

I read a copy of the infamous Sony internal memo that brought thi s concern to light when they made the decision to stay clear of that technology. You can tell that they suffered a little by staying with LCD while the SXRD was being developed and it had to hurt them to be marketing an older technology when everyone else had DLPs...

Sony is the biggest "me too" company in electronics...
If Sony steers clear, there has to be something to this.

I am such a strong proponent of 3-chip that I request that clients sign a waiver regarding their choice of DLP that states that I explained the single chip issues (whining, rainbow, potential failure of moving parts, etc.).

By even HAVING this waiver, I have sold more DILAs!!

I would rather sell the JVC HX-2 than an InFocus 7210 anyway...

2nd Rick,

What is the difference between D-ILA and DLP? I haven't found a good explanation of this anywhere. What exactly does DILA stand for? If you had 5 to 10 grand to spend on a set that you needed to use as a HTPC display / HD Viewing, what would you buy?

Thanks,
Mark

Watch this...
[Link: pro.jvc.com]

If you like it and want to show it to clients, bookmark it now.
I don't think you can link to it from the website anymore.



Digital
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One of the JVC HD-ILA RPTVs, the largest one I could fit into the application/budget.
...or a HX-2 projector if you can get a little discount.
They sometimes street for around $10K or less.

Then you need a screen. For the D-ILAs, I like the Stewart GrayHawk Reference material in the Luxus Deluxe Screen Wall for the fixed screens.
It helps bring out that deepest black that the D-ILA can have a hard time getting to on a white screen.

The DLP guys point out that deepest black, like the white guy preaching "Rocky Marciano" in the barber shop scene of Coming To America.

I think that the deep blacks are FAR outweighed by the other attributes of the D-ILA system vs. the single chip DLPs.

The D-ILA has the crisp text and perfect convergence you would expect from a 3 chip technology, and a filmlike smoothness that is only rivalled by excellently set up big CRTs.

To my eyes, the pixels on DLP projection have a ringing type anomoly, almost like there are little glass beads that are just slightly concave that are superimposed on each pixel.

That combined with the other issues I mentioned previuously will keep me far away from DLP.

2nd Rick and everyone else,

What do you think about using a good plasma for pc display/hd viewing? I was tihinking that the plasma wouldn't have the power up/down time that the DLP has, which would allow me to power it up and down when I needed it instead of leaving it on all the time like we do the DLP. This would cut the usage back to about 6 hrs a day. I need to be able to check things quickly on the computer, so I hate waiting for the DLP to cycle power, so I always leave it on.

Mark

Plasmas are a good value long term because they do not need $300-500 bulbs every 18 months.

Many people fail to mention this to consumers...

Plasmas are VERY crisp with PCs. which is why they became such a hit with board room appliations.
They are phosphor based direct displat devices just like tube TVs, so they hold up well to ambient light, plus they are a fixed pixel device so the text stays nice and sharp.

Obviously a 42 ED is not as sharp as an HD, but it still works great unless you on the back row of that conference table.

The biggest problem with plasma is motion artifacting and bizarre interpolation issues that are visible if you are too close, especially in light colors next to dark colors.

The nicer ones from today are much better.

The Sampos and Dells must be older technology for that low price, because they do not hold up when placed near a Fujitsu, Hitachi, Pioneer, Marantz, etc.

The Samsungs, Pannys, and LGs are also good, but not among the best IMO. I would have said Pannys were pretty close to being among the best a generation ago, but I think they went backwards...

Dwin and Runco take good panels from someone else and make them great, but you pay for it.

I think Fujitsu and Hitachi are the best values even though they are not the cheapest.

I don't think 70" was affected, but FYI...

[Link: cpsc.gov]

Thanks guys. I was just looking at the Hitachi 55HDT51 Plasma. What do you guys think of this one?

Mark

Bump.

What is the likelihood of burn in with a plasma, if using it for a computer monitor if it is turned off when not actively being used?
This is my main concern about getting a plasma, and I wondered if my fears were unfounded?

Thanks,
Mark

Mark, a lot of people make a big stink about burn on plasmas, but it's not the same as with CRTs.

Burn is the variance in brightness on adjoining pixels, which is noticable on rows of groups like logos, Windows taskbars, letterbox bars, and news channel ticker style banner strips.

Yes plasmas are phosphor based, and yes all phosphor based displays are phosphors that slowly degrade over time depending on how often that phosphor is used. But so are the tube TVs we have used since the invention of TV.
The secret to not noticing burn is keeping the slow reduction in brightness evened out over adjoining pixels.

Unlike CRTs that draw the same horizontal line on the same row of phosphors every single time, plasmas now have digital pixel orbiters that move the image up or down or left or right one row or column at a time in a planned "orbit", moving one step every few seconds.
This is basically imperceptible.

Since the crisp lines that burn (like a Windows taskbar or a news channel ticker style banner) are moving up and down and/or over a few rows over every 20-30 seconds, they don't leave a crisp burn mark, but a very minor transition that is pretty much imperceptible unless that is the ONLY image that is ever displayed on that panel and the whole transition area burns compared to the adjoining pixel rows or coluumns next to the outer ranges of the orbiter system.

Even if that is the case, you have another weapon at your disposal to deal with adjoining pixel variance. On most plasmas there is a full tilt white raster setting that takes the entire unit to full tilt white from every pixel.

Doing this for an hour or so once a month in this application will not affect the lifespan too much, especially on a 60K hour rated panel, but can even out any minor burn-ins from leaving a PC or video game on too long between sessions with a regular video image that varies a lot that usualy keep burn evened out.

I would plan this pretty much every single month for an hour for anyone that uses a plasma for a PC desktop or where a somone plays a lot of X-box or PS-2 games that have windows that do not move. Halo and other RPGs are very popular and are notorious for this.

A few tip regarding minimizing burn from PC use:

1) Use a hidden taskbar on Windows that only pops up when you roll the cursor below the bottom edge of the window so that sharp edge isn't on screen the entire time you are working.

2) Try to keep icons off the desktop by organizing your folders, using start menu and taskbar icons.

3) Choose a background that is pretty basic and doesn't have sharp, high constrast images or logos.

4) Select a screen saver and set a short start time to a put it up pretty quickly after you go inactive.

As an example of the mild contrast look, look at Daniel's Remote Central background beside this forum window.
It's almost a watermark it's so well blended.

Using these tips kept burn-prone CRTs around as the most commonly used monitors for a long time, and they don't have the luxury of the orbiter system to help out.

I know this was long-winded, but I hope it helps...

--Rick

This message was edited by 2nd rick on 05/18/05 23:43 ET.

Thanks Rick. I brought the 55" Hitachi Plasma 55hdt51 home last night, and have been experimenting with it, and it is awesome. Do you know if this set has the orbiter that you talked about, and also does it have the full tilt white raster setting? I haven't read the entire manual yet. I was too excited to get it hooked up. I have been following most of the computer use tips that you stated for a long time. I have a screen saver that starts up 3 minutes after idle time, and it switches between photographs every 6 seconds. I would think that should protect the set. Also, I will turn it off when I'm not using it, unlike the DLP set that took forever to power down and power up. The HD picture on this plasma is incredible as well.

Thanks for the advice,
Mark

I have used the Fujitsu version of that same 55" panel a few times, and I agree that it is spectacular.

I grabbed the owner's manual for your set from the site and it does not mention the orbiter or a raster command.

Perhaps the service menu handbook is req'd for this info.

I might recommend placing a call to the 800-HITACHI line and say that a "project consultant" has specified the panel with the orbiter system, as well as the ability to provide a brief wipe w/ full white raster for a plasma on a job (these are not uncommon consultant specs for a plasma).

BTW, the consultant thing almost universally applies to purchases by universities, courthouse facilities, public libraries, etc. so this is not an unusual request. Specs like this keep the min wage kids from Circuit City from clogging up the submittal process with crap that they don't understand enough to know does not apply.

Anyway, if you really were providing a plasma for the State University's Board of Regents' boardroom... or for the Santa Barbara County Courthouse for Mark Geragos to show the jury the photos of Michael Jackson's ranch, you would need to verify that your panel had these types of features before you submitted a proposal. The Hitachi would not be the first choice for an application like that because the e-box would make it cumbersome, but they should be able to provide the data for you nonetheless.

Someone very knoweledgeable will likely take the call and get you the info, or get right back to you with it.

Also, if you haven't already done this, go to the website of your video card company (ATI, etc.) and downlaod widescreen desktop resolutions to select when you go to display properties >>settings in Windows.
I have my ATI Radeon card's 1200 x 800, 1920 x 1080 (HD-1080P), and 1920 x 1200 settings in the drop down menu in Windows display settings on my laptop right now for use on plasmas and widescreen projos for powerpoint presentations.

1200 x 800 is nice and big and easy to read and everything is the correct ratio on most HDTV displays, 1920 x 1080 looks better on others. The 1920 x 1200 rate is actually closer to the native rate of the panel you have, but you will have to experiment...

Again, someone at Hitachi can recommend settings for your set for this use.

Enjoy your TV.