OK OK.. I accept the fact that I'm the whipping boy here because I was the first one to say anything about the abundance of jetrack propoganda.... I can accept that.... But Chic..... Looks like you COmpletely missed my meaning as well... I'm talking about this community as a WHOLE. You say 8 people made some sort of negative comment..... I've seen and participated in people who show up here stricktly to sell their goods...... and while it may not be 800 of us telling him to piss-off, its significantly more than 8.......

Thats what that comment meant..... Nothing more..........

OK. this is just getting stupid. He said he's been in contact with remote central about advertising didn't he? can't we just all got along? were's the love?

Impaqt, If you company has grown that much then I doubt very much you're an idiot. So are you saying that if this rack will save you time on the job site you still won't buy it because of some idiotic flaming war on an interntet forum? I would find that idiotic myself. If I didn't do business with every vendor that had done something insulting or obnoxious over the years I'd have to sell lemonade on the street corner.

OK Impaqt you've challenged me to be more detailed in my analysis. Call me a freak but here it goes. I love a good challenge and it's Friday afternoon. I've taken the liberty of adding another post category,"Defensive"

JET RACK POST ANALYSIS #2

INFORMATIVE POSTS
///////////////////////// Jay 26
26 TOTAL INFORMATIVE

DEFENSIVE POSTS
/////// Jay 7
7 TOTAL DEFENSIVE

POSITIVE POSTS
/ HDTV Junkie 1
//Ted2
/ tippy-tie1
///Larry3
////// Chic6
// Anthony2
/bcf19631
////whdigital 4
/djy 1
/King Of Typos1
//Skybird2
///Got Game3
/Lonny Lieberman 1
//Soundman2
/Ernie1
/AV Dude1
/jritch1
/flcusat1
31 TOTAL POSITIVE

NEGATIVE
///////Imp 7
/ejfii1
/ whdigital1
/ Anthony1
/ Fisher1
11 TOTAL NEGATIVE

NEUTRAL
//8thst2
/Ted1
////Anthony4
/Fisher1
/Carl1
/Ernie1
/Yeti1
/installer_5741
//Jay2
/Springs1
/// Chic3
// AHEM2
///// Larry5
/rhm91
//Tom C.2
/RC Geek1
/King of Typos 1
/Pilgram1
/scottedge2671
///QQQ3
35 TOTAL NEUTRAL

110 Posts Total

26 INFORMATIVE= 24%
100% JAY

7 DEFENSIVE= 6%
100% Jay


31 POSITIVE= 28%
19% Chic (6)
12% whdigital (5)
9% Larry (3 each)
9% Got Game
6% TED
6% ANTHONY
6% Soundman
6% Skybird
27% Other(Tied with 1 each)

11 NEGATIVE= 10% of total posts
64% IMPAQT (7)
9% Ejfii (1 each)
9% Anthony
9% Whdigital
9% Fisher


35 NEUTRAL= 32% No need to break down

So Impaqt even though you don't want to believe that you are the king of all sourpusses that fact is there and you win the negativity award HANDS DOWN! With a record 64% negativity factor which is attained by adding grumps and gripes, subtracting compliments and well-wishes multiplied by good intentions.

You can see that 6% of the total posts were Jay defending his position combine that with the negative posts and the entire thread matter would be 16% shorter and a bit more bearable.

To cap it all off, it appears to me that I am the only one here that has actually purchased, installed and is currently using a Jet Rack which puts me in a position to give my opinion and for my opinion to count for something other than the another sour grape in Jay's vat which is mostly full of good grapes and will probably make a pretty decent wine someday. To carry this analogy further...... It may not get a 96 on Wine Spectator's rating but I think that it will prove to be wine with good character, smooth, with full body, pleasant aroma, and a long finish with just a tinge of bitterness (that's your grapes) OK that's enough.

So the moral of the story is keep your grapes out of other peoples vats unless you have some good grapes to add in which case feel free to add them. But most of all, make sure you shave your feet and clean your toenails before you stomp the grapes.

Wow...
I don't know what category this post will fall into, but I am willing to subject myself to a thorough interrogation and perhaps psycho-analysis to determine proper categorical accuracy...

Jay,
Grow some thicker skin and smile and nod (or the forum equivelant) when you are hit with criticism. You have enough positive points to discuss that you shouldn't waste time tending to every small detail of a critical post.

This is exactloy why manufacturers hire sales staff or even outside reps. The inventors are too close to the product and way too passionate, so they wind up spending all their time trying to convert everyone they meet vs. finding a better market to pitch to.
(Notable exception: Ron Popeil)

Take your own advice and be more diplomatic and tactful, and keep a professional demeanor, instead of trying to convert 100% of the cynics or win every argument.

If you don't get better at accepting criticism, you won't last long as a pitchman.

In addition, I would like to see a higher quality video clip on you site, I can barely discern what is going on and the audio is missing. It is too compressed and it is pretty hard to see how the ladder is held at either end. I downloaded the PDF, and I still dont know if this will work with my ladders.
I almost exclusively use double sided step ladders that do not have tool holes in the top, but they do have a small gap between the top treads when the ladder is closed...
[Link: louisvilleladder.com]
Also, I usually bring a 4 ft. or a 6 ft, and I don't take both to every trip. Can I use the Jet rack with either of these, or do I have to set up the rack for the 6 footer leave the 4 footer on the floor even if the big one is back in storage?? or... can I use these vertically instead of horizontally and place BOTH ladders on Jet Racks on opposite sides of the van with the lower rail bungeed off to the shelving to keep them from swining madly and getting damaged??

Your product is intriguing, and I personally wish you well...
but I would say I have to agree with Impaqt about the ham-handed promotion being a little out of place.

You are a valuable contributor, and that has bought you quite a bit of slack... don't abuse that.

Good luck,
Rick.

This message was edited by 2nd rick on 04/08/05 19:28 ET.

I just re-read all my responses, and I find it hard to believe any of them would fall into a Negative category in reationship to the Product or the spokesperson/inventor. I simply expressed my opinion that I felt the amount ofadvertising/threads was excessive.... If thats "Negative" ok..... THats fine.... But I would really like to know what else anyone feels is negative about my posts..... and I certainly dont feel I got personal with any of my comments.... That certainly wasnt my intention....

good grief......yawn

tippy - I agree with you... except I have a larger yawn and probably a smaller lawn.

I do let the salespeople and reps handle all aspects of the sales operation, but I also have a perfectly abnormal interest in what my peers are doing with the Rack. I want to know their questions. I want to know the problems. I have a much more intimate relationship with the product than any engineer or sales associate will ever have. In the last month that they have been available, they have been selling them to people all over, and a few people have bought 100 units at a crack.

As chic has pointed out... He's the only one on here that he knows who actually bought one!

Think about that. Do you think I'm really in here with the same ....MAYBE 50 people who follow these threads trying to sell them all on the Rack system so I can move on an retire?

I'm confrontational, argumentative, irrational, abrasive, YET all the while realistic. I'm NOT nor will I ever try to be a pitchman for this or any other product. Doesn't interest me in the slightest. I don't want to be the " Rack Guy" Leave that shi% up to the actors and models who would like this kind of work.

That's what's been so humorous to me this whole time. While I'm confident that more than one of you have bought a Rack, I'm not trying to grow the business through my efforts on RC. I think I get better results when I pull up on a job site for 45 seconds, show off the product, and leave.

This is where I get my feedback. That's valuable to me. I could wait... It will come back to the distributor as sales increase... And are they ever, but I like to know what they will say and what they will ask before it gets back to me. You guys have done a great job of that, and If I have to bounce a few buck Daniel's way to get that information... It's worth it to me.

What do I do for the distributor? Far more than they ever expected from me. Far more than any company who contracts they rights to manufacture and sell a patented product. My brother and I could have turned it over and sat here waiting for the royalty check to come. Not our style. He's out there doing all he can to ensure success, and gather information in his existing circle of friends and business associates.

I've always been hands on. I printed my first door to door leaflets at the library when I just turned 15. They said. I'm 15 and I'll work hard. If you need a phone line in a room where you don't have one now, just call me over and I'll do it. A couple days later I made $20 for running a new line. What's the point? RC can NOT make or break the Rack. It can only help to satisfy my curiosities. (I have a few)

Do I endanger the potential customer base? Sure, but don't all of us do the same? I can recount at least a thousand or so postings from all of us where we left a customer on bad terms because somebody had their head up their ass.

It's purely natural. Abt... 2004 Retailer of the year... The most incredible company and store... Awesome by any measure. They have ONE store... It's got to be 50 mile north of Impaqt, but I believe they have Hhh.. Hh Hundreds of trucks and employees... Maybe more than a thousand around the holidays... Award winning in all respects... I would take my car to their guys any day.

But when it was me against them in new home contracts, I would win... Almost every time. We can run circles around them in terms of finish quality of installation. We could spend that extra time to make things perfect, so we would. My warranty call's are almost 100% for a failed component. ...And I'm not even CEDIA Level anything.

Point? I'm here... I'm spreading information and collecting it... Is it all relevant? ... NOooo... Just look at the last few paragraphs... I just run on and on...

my shin is THICK and my smile is permanent.. I have contributed longer threads describing the color of water. Mountains of reading and writing for my own amusement more than scientific analysis.

If I were worried about being a professional, and tactful diplomat, I would have never let you guys know about the Rack as "Jay". The cats out of the bag long ago. I don't try to hide who I am.

I'm not running for public office. I'm not putting myself in the spotlight, I'm not even actively involved in selling Racks. I'm just doing what I've been doing on this site for a long time.

Don't believe me? Look up my previous posts.. Go back a few years... The Shi* is weird.

I value what all of you have to say, but like my customers no all to well, I'm not going to show up in a suit to sell you something, talk like a fancy lad, and then go change into my street clothes and relax. I'm going to wear what I have on, treat people with respect, and do a damn fine job and get on with life.

Impaqt - You're not a whipping boy. That would mean your taking the punishment for the wrongdoings of your master.

You're bringing it on yourself. There is no cause for argument here, but you continue?

I don't get it. This isn't the 'remote control wonder board moulding' or whatever that thing was... This is ME!?

Do you think I would jump all over you if the tables had been turned? If you do. You are wrong.

You took a crap outside the restroom and hoped nobody would know it was yours, but they did, and they knew it was yours they know you love corn. See.. Senseless...

CHIC!! ... Your commission is forthcoming... lol ..Seriously, I thank you for all the defense... More stats than I could ever generate on my own. I hope your Rack is treating you well... How about a beer analogy next time.

2nd... about the ladder situation... What are you doing with that type of ladder? Do you have stand on both sides at the same time?

Seriously though.. I CAN tell you that last week we set up a dual track system that we set up in a trailer. It's really nice. It's on the ceiling and each piece of strut is only about 8.5~9 inches apart on center.

We set it up with in a manner that allowed us to mount allllll of these different types of ladders without making a single adjustment to anything...
24' fiberglass Werner extension ladder
12' -A frame
10' -A frame
8' - A Frame

we could have done some other ladders, but these are the ones we had, also, they represented what ladders this person might use depending on what job they were heading to. This isn't a situation where the ladder ejects the full length, but it's still very quick, and functional.

This type of dual Rack set up is GREAT for larger ladders, but would work just as well with your smaller ones.

If they were mine, I might drill a little ole' hole in they top center, but it's not... I Might also try to epoxy a couple little blocks where the 'crack' in the center is.. that would keep the ladder from wanting to slide left or right when it in the rack if you only used one.

If you had a typical installation in a van where you might want it to hold a 4',6', or 8' ladder on a single rail, and wanted to change the tension to accommodate these ladders... It takes... oh.. I don't know... somewhere between half a second and one WHOLE second to adjust the tension, but then again, I'm an expert and have done it many times before... It might take a beginner almost twice as long... OK.. then you have to wrap up the excess shock cord, so give yourself another 2-3 seconds to be safe.

One other cool thing.. People always ask how much weight it can handle... Well, when the 24' extension ladder was up, I was using them as monkey bars (professional testing- do no try this at home), My brother and another guy hung from it together... (about 500 lbs with ladder)(professional testing- do no try this at home), and a body builder guy who's well over 300 came and did several pull ups... (professional testing- do no try this at home) And all of that was with only 4 self tapping screws in each rail...

I read in the paper today about a guy who may get 11 years in prison for spaming! We have little in common when you compare what we do on line...

Did I mention before that I ramble from time to time?...

This message was edited by Jay In Chicago on 04/14/05 13:04 ET.

Wait, I don't think I was negative - I wish to change my negative to a neutral. I was replying honestly to his marketing question.

Jay, the jet rack seems cool. I showed my boss and he seems interested (although that doesn't mean he'll buy any, but he liked the idea).

See, now this can be a positive! Go Jay go!

(I would be interested to see a count by Chic of how many of my posts are helpful or useful in any way, I'm guessing the percentage is low. lol)

I have to agree with Impaqt. I've been sitting this one out but I had the same reaction. I'm not going to statistically analyze things but I find the "information blitz" a bit inappropriate too. I'm sure it's a great product and Jay is very enthusiastic and I will consider buying one but I am not enjoying this thread. It's too polarizing.

Shoe... I find the Howard Stern program a bit inappropriate, but after I figured that out, I stopped tuning it in, paying attention, or even thinking about it.

I just understand that a lot of people enjoy his show and I tune to another station.

If it doesn't interest you. DON'T read it. I don't want you to be upset.

I feel this tread is industry related, and an interesting story from the pespective of a long time poster.

This message was edited by Jay In Chicago on 04/10/05 04:35 ET.

Ya see Jay, you sort of filled my expectations. I mildly disagreed with you and you needed to defend your point with a very strong response. Chill out dude....and buy some advertising here. BTW, you may want to be more diplomatic when dealing with potential customers. I don't particularly care to deal with defensive vendors, would you?

You just impressed one guy, who may or may not be able to pull the trigger on the purchasing decision for the vehicle he is driving...


Yes, yes you are!! But why??
Stop it already!!


There are always going to be disagreements in business dealings at any level.
When it goes wrong I don't KEEP poking at them, I walk away and look for the next opportunity to win a client and grow my business.


No kidding... It looks like you are working very hard to undermine the efforts of the people who are trying to sell them.

In terms of local opportunities, you not only got under John's skin, you just pissed all over one the largest CI fleets in the Midwest to serve your ego as an installer!! Call Barrett's, Grant's and get it over with.

There aren't too many other opportunities where you can meet with one local guy that could write you a couple hundred orders without having to send the idea up to a board or comittee like the corporately owned fleets would have to. They work hard to increase efficiencies, that's how they got that big, and they may have been good candidates for your product.

Are you TRYING to screw this up??
It's like you are shooting yourself in the foot over and over, and you are stopping to reload so you can keep firing!!


You don't need to be a "fancy lad" to slow it down and be aware of what you are saying and how it might piss off people that may actually help your product become a success instead of fading into obscurity.


I said it in my last post, and I will say it again...
I agree with John, and I think it is confrontational to say that he is "bringing it on himself" when we are each just stating our opinions.


What kind of response is that??
What am I doing with them??
It's not like I said I wanted to hang some Cosco kitchen step stool. Ladders like mine are not uncommon among contractors, can you hook to them or not??
IMO, they are the best stepladders available with the arguable exception of the fiberglass Little Giants, which are more practical and probably my next ladder purchase.

My partner bought a couple of these twin fronts, one from Werner and an older Keller from before Werner bought them, and I fell in love with them. They are the strongest and most soild feeling stepladders you can buy... period. and I definitely like that.
They are super easy to use with planks for a quickie scaffold system and I feel more solid and comfortable on the top of the 10 footer than I do on a regular 6 footer.
I bought "Louies" cause I have a connection for very good pricing.

The only drawback with twin fronts is that they are heavy as hell, but since you can climb both sides, you don't move them as often.

If I need a hand for a quick second, my partner can stand on the other side safely so he doesn't have to carry his ladder over to my task. Since his stays set up on his task, we can each be more productive.


I guess I need to see how it works before I can understand WTF you are talking about. I would hope that you may be open to fabbing up an adaptation to the mount to accept these ladders vs. asking me to epoxy stuff to my ladder to fit your current mount...


So are you saying that they will eject to the back of the van or tailgate opening of a truck?? It seems like you were saying in the trailer scenario that when the track is set up for the longer ladder and you use that track with a shorter ladder, that you have to climb in to hang or eject the ladder from the front part of the track.

Is that right??

This message was edited by 2nd rick on 04/10/05 05:44 ET.

[Link: taiwan_on.tripod.com]

Shoe...

2ndRick...

Don't you understand how frustrating it is for me?

This post would be about 10 times shorter if each time I wasn't here meeting your expectations.

As far as standing on both sides of the ladder. .... That's a joke... humor... I know he doesn't have 4 legs.

As far as epoxying a bit of this or that to keep the ladder from sliding side to side... That's a very real solution for which we will eventually be tooling up plastic inserts to fit various ladders. It's been tested, and is very safe. These parts would not be on any surface you would ever come in contact with your hand or foot. They would be a simple, approved, non invasive product that wouldn't effect the safety of your ladder in any way, in fact it may improve it's usability by providing newly available space for useable tool holes such as a screwdriver and a set of side cutters etc...

In short, the weight of the ladder is held by downward force, not negligible lateral movement.


Good gravy man... I'm trying to answer too many questions under fire. I'll just take a break. The more I open my mouth the further my foot enters.


When speaking very directly, I'll often shim over valid points and Maybe cause a bruise... On myself...
Such as with Abt... I've worked in house with their installers under scores of circumstance, and they DO agree with me about quality of install issues for the simple fact that they are run so ragged. And put on so many different jobs each week. I can stay at a trim from start to finish if I want, and WILL make each run of wire as picture perfect as possible. I have a reputation for this, and have had virtually all of my work through word of mouth, and my proposal is usually in one hand, while Abt's is in the other. With such an excellent reputation, there really is no competition, and the recommendation gives me the privilege of wining the bid if it represents a fair comparison.

It's like going to a specialty shop to have your car Audio, or going to Best Buy. If you didn't notice though.. I DID mention their awesome car audio division. I put them up with the best of the CA companies.

I actually send LOT's of work to Abt on the jobs I work because I feel so confident about their ability to provide basic components and installation for their customers quickly and efficiently, and with comparable value.

As an example. This last job I have been finishing up. I have been so busy with the Jet rack that when the customer who had been undecided about equipment choices throughout the job that had lasted nearly 2 years suddenly went for occupancy and wanted to finish the selection and installation of several rooms full of major components, I had him visit Abt Immediately and work with one of their sales people. With the list I helped provide to him, he purchased 2- 50" plasmas, + receivers and speakers, 2- 50" projection sets, several LCD panels, and a host of other components...

ALL OF WHICH I COULD HAVE PROVIDED to the customer if I felt i could get it installed in the next week and a half... I knew I couldn't, and I would have made some much needed income as well.

This is in a house where we've already installed 3 -75" racks full of equipment, 30+ sets of speakers throughout, a stadium style theater with 7.1 THX... More Cat-5 and quad shield than you could imagine...

We did all of this, but without hesitation i sent them to Abt... That's not uncommon... Besides. My time is better spent elsewhere from time to time.

It's the new prairie style.. Frank Lloyd Wright... they know the house... They know me, and my work and the Rack... Sorry To them and each of you for misconstruing the intentions of the points made...

I could just respond 24 hours ad day if that's what you want.

You always load and eject the ladder from the foot of the ladder. It's possible to grab a rung securely that is NOT the bottom rung.

If John is saying that he's the whipping boy, he's saying that he's felt the abuse... And he wasn't referring to anything that I said to him, or he wouldn't have used the term.

You point out that it's going wrong, but you keep poking at me?? You say that your don't when you are? How am I to not respond to that?

Fancy Lad... Nothing to say... Ever see Cabin boy? Yeesh...


Again.. the hole... It's a common suggestion from the guys at the shows.. One guy said we could include a hole in the box for these situations... It was a chuckle...

______________________________________________

Shoe.. I really want to chill out, but with my personality, and the questions I'm given... I have to try to remember that most of you haven't been putting up with my antics for years on this site and don't really understand that levity put behind each word...

I am (was) really typing here with a perma-grin.. -Maybe it's not right. Again.. My apologies...

Think Mark Twain...


2ndRick- Don't you keep giving me the ammo!? Please stop!
[Link: taiwan_on.tripod.com]

This message was edited by Jay In Chicago on 04/14/05 13:06 ET.

Rick is obviously much more diplomatic than I and he hasnt gotten through to you any more than I....

"Humor" in the middle of a defensive post generally doesnt come through that way on the other side..... I havent smiled in this thread at all....

you then apologize, and then end the thread with another rude comment... I dont get it..... WHy do you have free rain to type whatever you want, but rick and I are expected to keep our opinion to ourselves?

DOnt you have the ability to not read our responses? Just like we have the ability to skip the whole thread?

What!? He certainly has. You've both got to me very much. You should be happy about the grief you interject into what I would have preferred to be a fun post.



If your not smiling and having fun, then what are you wasting your time for? I don't waste my time with things I can't enjoy at least a little bit.

I know it becomes hard to detect "humor" in such postings.

Dry humor is even more difficult. My brand isn't for everyone, and I really don't mean to have you in such a foul state. I just can't understand why you would spend so much time and energy on a thread you don't care anything about.

This wouldn't be the first thread where you've put up and argumentative front. That type of behavior is unexpected to me. If I were asked to "profile" people on RC based on what I've read in the past. We would all have different personalities.

If we didn't each do our thing here, it would be a little less interesting, but I don't know why you have to do the things you do and say the things you say after such thorough explanation of my intentions.

It's just seems like your mean to me. I could be off base, but look at you. Even you name [IMPAQT] has a forceful connotation. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only person to have thought that you have at least one argumentative bone in your body.

I do too. That's no surprise, but the fact is this thread would be about as short and popular as you 'ld like it to be if you didn't get so stirred up about things that don't concern you in ANY way.


Type whatever I want? All I want to type about is the Rack. You force response out of me. With response comes personality. With defense comes offense.

I still don't know why you continue to read and respond to any Rack postings.

You've made your opinion abundantly clear in thread after thread. post after post. I DON'T expect you to keep your opinion to yourself. You've already made it quite clear.

I HAVE expected you to finally stop repeating yourself, but you do!?

What is your fascination? Why must you constantly bring your negative energy to the board. I've been very clear that it's upsetting and unwelcome mrK.


Are you kidding? I might miss you saying something nice. (smile)

This message was edited by Jay In Chicago on 04/14/05 13:07 ET.