hey boys,

are there any new sites or forums for us geeks and pros? rc seems kinda dead these days? of course fb forums and pages don't help

I thought this was for sure going to be a spam post advertising Bangladeshi escorts or something.

So that's why you clicked on it? :)

It still could be ;-)

Facebook groups are busiest.

integrationpros.com is still active... but not much busier than here.

I just have a feeling less and less people are doing automation or remote systems. This is based on trends in my own installations in the past couple of years. Correct me if I'm wrong. Plus there's got to be a new generation of young installers doing things a lot differently than what we were doing 10-15 years ago just because they don't know any better. I wonder if they are more likely to embrace consumer systems like Google, Amazon, Sonos, Ring..etc..not even Harmony anymore...

I would love to hear about the state of traditional automation companies these days (Crestron, Control 4, RTI..etc..) Are they in fact growing or shrinking and at what rate?

I can only speak to C4 at the moment in terms of remote controls.  To walk into a basic system and provide their least expensive options for control with a handheld remote, you are looking at just shy of $1200 for just the remote and required controller.  Doesn't include network upgrades that are highly recommended if client is on a basic ISP router or consumer router.  That doesn't include voice control which most cable providers are now giving with their free remotes.  For that $1200 you get a remote that looks like it is from the late 90s.  They do have new remotes that were just released that look much nicer, but that ups the minimum retail cost to a little under $1500.  There is push back from clients when you are talking this kind of money for control of a basic TV system.  IMHO, these companies are pricing themselves out of the market.

There really is no good inexpensive remote for a simple system. URC complete control is probably the least expensive option with their MX-790 for $380 for direct line of site IR. Add a base station for RF and it adds $150-$250. Of course this is without programming.

They do have one less expensive option and the is the MX-490 for $300 or the Mx-450 is still available for $250. In my opinion these are good for DIYers as the extra cost difference from programming one the remote to a laptop is worth the difference in price. But, if you are selling preconfigured systems this could work/

I see remote control manufacturers in this twilight zone, much like video rental stores were in 15 years ago. The market is shrinking dramatically. A single cable box remote can operate most simple systems. The jump to these programmable remotes is a huge one.

Nevertheless, understanding the engineering and development costs for these new remotes, divided by how many they expect to sell, it just means it is a high price if they are going to survive at all. If not for OEM remotes, URC and UEI wouldn't have much to do. And OEM remotes for cable boxes are not exactly cash cows.

I agree. I do love my clients that dont flinch at $1500 for a basic remote system, but it is pretty outrageous when you think about it.

Seems to me they could be OEMing some of stuff rather than custom building. My Stupid Bedjet has a Zigbee Remote with a full color screen that was a $39 option..... You cant tell me a raspberry pi wouldn't run C4 OS with minimal Effort. Boomers and Xers will spend money on this stuff... I dont see many Millennials Or Z's getting excited about automation because they grew up on their phones.... Everything they use already has an app.

Close to 50 years in business, one thing I can tell you is, whatever you are doing now, you will be doing something different in 10 years. And it's always good to be paying attention to the way things are moving, or you will end up like the tube testing TV technicians from early in my career. All you needed was a tube tester and you could be a television technician. But then when transistorized TVs came out, these guys didn't know tech and they were out of business.

We repaired everything tech in our shop for many years. I found out I could buy pallets of Gateway 17 inch computer monitors for next to nothing, fix them, and sell them on eBay. We get 400 something dollars for a refurbished 17 inch monitor. I was ready to shut down the whole show there and just do that full-time from my garage. Think of the low overhead, all the profits, how simple life would be… And then those monitors started selling for $350, and for $290, and then pretty soon it didn't even pay to buy the pallets with monitors on them anymore. It was a blip on the radar that didn't actually last all that long.

What FB groups are you guys on, that have decent traffic?

Craig

AV Installers group (good mix of residential and commercial), Low Voltage Nation (mostly focused on commercial/rough-in). There is a group specific to virtually every control system as well, which are helpful for whatever lines you work with- I am a member of the Control4 one, Lutron Homeworks/QS, and Sonos.

Thank you

I have been in it for over 20 years now. Long enough to remember selling s-video cables on the TV deliveries for Ultimate Electronics. I miss the days when all we did were distributed audio systems and theater rooms. The good old days. I could do without any of the rest of the stuff we have to deal with these days. Can we go back? Lol