I wonder why they love MusicCast and HEOS then?
Hmmmmmm.
What could it be?

Does Spotify and Apple Music work inside Bluesound app? if not, what do customers do to adjust level of different rooms?

People don't care that they have to dick around with multiple apps - maybe an issue for you personally, but generally people love F'ing around on that phone. Gives them purpose.

Also, Sonos tends to drop rooms off the app for whatever reason. Out of all the gear we've installed over the years, that's prolly been our most popular service call.

If you want to insist on having problems, then you will have problems.

People understand Spotify Connect. They start the stream int he app and then open Bluesound. Its not a big deal. Very few people need to browse files while they are listening. They start a playlist and go.

Apple Music is a PITA. if someone is insistent on using it, then Sonos probably is their best best.

I've been very successful in explaining the difference to clients and getting them into services like Deezer, Tidal, and now Qobuz.

you seem hell bent on making Spoitfy and Apple Music an issue. I'm sorry, but thats on you. Not your clients. most people are reasonable if you just take some time to explain the limitations and benefits.

They either accepts the issues that come along with Sonos..... Or they switch. It doesnt need to be any more complicated than that.

Eh... I was interested until I saw that it was 900 bucks. I'll ask my sales guy what he thinks, but to me it's the same part with a higher price tag.

People love dicking around with 5 remotes in their media systems too. I tell them read the manual when they call me about how to work things

So... if tomorrow, Spotify pulls their built-in integration from Spotify, like they did with control systems a while ago, what will you tell your customers?

Pull out their entire Sonos system so you can give them their money back?
Or...
Adapt and learn Spotify Connect?

I agree with MrTristan. The difference is I have tried them all in my home with my family and most are still here. So, don't tell me try them, I have! Sonos, Heos, Musicast, Bluesound and URC. You know the one that gets used - SONOS. It is the same way for customers with a few exceptions. Someone that has a lossless music library or plans to use a service like Tidal I wouldn't use Sonos. Someone that already has a bunch of other architecture from Yamaha or Denon and is already using their music system then I would stay with those. However, most customers I deal with Sonos is simply a better fit.

People don't want multiple apps and then have to send something via airplay or Bluetooth to their system. You also then can't have all you favorites in one place. Sonos the favorites (called My Sonos) can all be from different services. No going in and out of apps. Do I like that Sonos has crappy margin? NO! But, it does so much right it is hard to argue against.

And damn we have never had one failure with their products, I can't say that about Denon or Yamaha. Their customer service is good. Their Mesh network doesn't tie up Wifi and works where other systems don't that rely on Wifi. Sometimes the wifi needs to be upgraded and I certainly don't mind doing that but it is not going to happen in every installation.

Here's my suggestion. Yamaha, Denon, Bluesound, etc. you came late to the game and you should have looked at what Sonos did and built a better mouse trap. Yes, all those can handle lossless music which 99% of the population don't care about. Also, carry the services people want Apple Music is big one and Airplay is not the same. So go back to the drawing board and build a more competitive product.

I had a customer that wanted Musicast because of other Yamaha equipment in the home but didn't go with it because it didn't have iHeart. Services and integration in one app matter! Customers don't want to have to remember multiple steps to get their music. Convenience trumps quality, having compressed music showed that, streaming over Ultra Blu-ray also shows that. How many Blu-ray players are we installing compared to Apple TVs, Rokus, etc?

BTW, I hear it is rumored that in the new Sonos upgrade, the one that won't work with older equipment that lossless music and Atmos will be coming. Time will tell if the rumors are true..

If ATMOS does come to Sonos I will be digging out the blog post from their old CEO where he absolutely rubbished it.

I agree about high res audio, if you're looking at something like Sonos, the little HEOS / Bluesound / MusicCast speakers etc, hi-res doesn't matter. They're little plastic speakers that can't perform deliver to a level where it even matters. All it means is that a vast majority of the files on a phone or NAS will actually play.

BUT I do believe that Sonos does fall into the 'safety net' where people who are used to it will put it in, no matter whether it's the right product or not.
How many CI companies do you see who only EVER put in-ceiling speakers in, who only ever put in a WiFi multi-room system... and when a customer asks for something that sounds better, they fall straight back to the 'this is the best and it's what I have at home' line - then kid themselves that upgrading to the 8" model of in-ceilings will leave the customer smiling.

There's better sounding kit that commands more money, more margin and less competition - but too many people in the industry are wanting to only deal with the cheapest product they are experienced at installing.

I think my signature probably sums up my opinion.

Lastly - Sonos is the company who offered free installs to customers.
Their CEO has actively stated that he wants to grow their direct to market sales.
There's no attempt to grow C.I.'s or AV specialist stores... you know, the ones who helped grow the company.

Does the Vault now integrate with C4? I was told it now does, but not in the past.

I agree that Sonos is not CI based, but there is no denying they are offering a product people want and ask for. They achieved that by making a product with the features people want. It is also not the cheapest product. One can definitely put together cheaper music systems. So anybody pushing sonos is not pushing the cheapest product.

With any customer I am looking for a solution that fits their needs and not pedaling stuff that doesn't because I can make more profit on it. To me Sonos hits the right check marks for many of our customers, not all. YMMV. We do make profit on it and profit on the install, I have never installed a Sonos for free. I do not know who Sonos got to do those jobs but it wasn't us. And I would only do it if Sonos paid our rate instead of the customer. I know we weren't installing it for free.

Vault has Always integrated with C4 just fine. Not sure who or why someone would of told you differently.

you can even use it as a dumb NAS/Ripper and point your C4 system right at it and have it manage all the music direct without ever having to use the bluesound app.

This has been the case for eons. New hardware companies come to the small dealers because we can introduce the product. Big box stores only want the easy sales -- get the customer in, make the quick sale with minimal effort. New, small hardware companies can't generate the sales volume that interests the big box. Eventually, our channel saturates and the hardware manufacturer can move to the big box. The big box can demand lower costs, keep an acceptable margin, and offer lower retail prices because the supply and sales chain is so much more efficient. Eventually, we are squeezed out and no one misses us. Been there, done that, many times.

Once you have a failure you might change your mind. You basically get to buy a new box at a discount, which ends up being just a little better than cost. In the end, it really isn't worth your time. Just like their trade up program.

Maybe so, but if I get one failure every 15 years I can deal with that. If I get a lot of failures that's a different story. Haven't had any yet though in more than 15 years.