If I'm not mistaken, he meant: "If, to you, wire is just wire, use anything."

Add: "...of appropriate gauge." and I'll agree.

It amazes me how much time we spend on this subject. I must disagree with the analogy. The same information is present on both legs and the same load is presented to the amplifier. This would only make a difference if the gauge was to small to begin with.

As for Transparent, they were a marketing company first. That's what they do best. But there wires can make a difference because they put passive devices inline. The argument then becomes, did it improve it? Or simply change it? My favorite was the wall plates with the Delrin O-ring to isolate the speaker wire from vibrations. I honestly don't know how you can sell that with a straight face. Or how you can expect anyone to take you seriously after trying to sell them such a product.

Ted, do they still sell that speaker wire isolation device? My wires are jumping all over the place and creating quite a racket...


Mark

Try Duct Tape!
3 bucks a roll, not $300 a hole

Why did you call Mark an a-hole?

Larry,
I didn't see that one coming.

single gang = hole (for those not accustom to the term)

I think everyone is missing the main reason (and point) why "bi-wiring" makes a sonic difference. Ridicule me if you must, but bi-wiring eliminates that awful bridging clip at the speaker's binding post. Those things are horrible for sonic integrity.

When I bi wire speakers, I common at the amp (of course) and segregate at the speaker, allowing me to sh*t can those jumper clips.

As for High End speaker wire, I suggest everyone try the poorman's high end speaker wire - the secret that all high end cable mfgs. don't want us to know about: mutiple runs of Cat 5 wires (or even better, Cat 5E plenum) . I usually run 4 for the positive and 4 for the negative and wonder solder on Cardas spade lugs on each end. A high end wire mfg. "engineer" told me that secret about 4 years ago. I thought maybe he had been tugging on his bong, but decided to go back to my showroom and try it. I am cable agnostic, and was expecting it to be a complete waste of time. I tried just one side so I could compare one side with the old (14 ga speaker wire). My jaw dropped. Needless to say, I re-ran all the speaker wires in my entire showroom to Cat 5 - and sell that option to my customer over any high end brand. I charge handsomely for it too as it isn't easy. Liberty spools together 8 Cat 5e taped every 2 feet for me (5 red Cat5's and 5 gray Cat5's).

Don't knock it until you've tried it. You might be surprised!

I've tried it all and heard all kinds of differences. None of which changes the fact that the engineering has proved us all wrong. If you can make the sale in good faith then go for it. I'm serious. I just can't do it anymore. Cables of good contruction, shielding and easy installation=yes. The rest=no. I still make good money on upselling cabling, just not the insane #'s of the faithfull.

Those transparent wall plates retailed for about $80 ea. back in '95. It was just a standard wall plated with a Delrin O ring. Delrin is epensive, but not that expensive.

lol Larry... that's not funny...

Mark

FP, please continue. You have me intrigued. Source and cost? Does Liberty make this available normally, "wonder solder", spades? Retail price? I really might try this and market it like you .
TJG

According to physics, helicopters won't fly either. For some reason they do.

Food for thought.

Well, perhaps. But back near the top of this thread, I really did some math, although I quit after about two pages and never posted it.

We get really really concerned with specifications in decibels. You would be horrified to have to use an amp with a signal to noise of 50 dB, right?

It turns out that the voltage drop on 14 gauge wire, in a 20 foot piece, is large enough that a low frequency signal around thirty to forty dB below the high frequency signals is present to modulate the high frequency signals. If there is a separate wire to the highs, this is not an issue.

By the way, in one of these threads, someone suggested that a person who believes in bi-wiring should connect himself to the "high frequency" wires, where the other end of both the "high frequnecy" and "low frequency" wires are plugged into the wall, and will then become convinced that bi-wiring does not make any difference. I would be glad to do this! Just remember that I, like the tweeter, would get to have a crossover between me and the 60 Hz signal. If that were the cheapest 6 dB per octave crossover, with a crossover point of 1 kHz, then 120 VAC would turn out to be present, four octaves higher, at about 0.68 volts. Hook me up!

Tom,

Another dealer told me that Liberty would pretty much make any wire bundle you want. And I do occasionally buy wire from them but don't source all my Custom Install wire from them, I contacted them to see if they would bundle up 8 Cat 5E for me and their price is reasonable. I buy 500' spools from them and it ends up being about $.75 a foot when you factor in freight (the spools are big and a little heavy so they have to be trucked). If you buy more quantities, you can probably get your freight costs down because one spool invokes the minimum trucking freight fees.

I charge between $2 and $2.50 a foot. Labor rates of course vary depending on the job logistics.

I buy Cardas spade lugs from that high-end cable company friend of mine. But they can probably be had directly from Cardas. I like them because they are no nonsense and not burdened down by the jewelry look of some of the other companies (like F&*ing needle dick Noel's stuff). I also dress the cables out (last 2 feet that stick out of the wall) with a mesh sleeving and heat shrink (even at the rack end too). Obviously this is just cosmetic, and it does take time (which I factor in to my bid) but it does make for a nice presentation. It also allows me to differentiate my self from the garden-variety trunk slammer (or even other retailer/custom installers). BTW, I do not use terminal plates where the bundle comes out of the wall. When I rough wire the room, I run the wire to a single gang mud ring and leave 3-4' stuffed into the wall. At trim out phase, I pull out the 8 cat 5's solder and mesh sleeve/heat shrink dress them, install a single gang MidLite wire port plate on the mud ring, bringing the custom made speaker harness through the plate and hook up the wire directly to the speaker. This way the speaker wire spades directly to the binding post of the amp on one end and directly to the speaker binding post at the other end. It makes for a very reliable and trouble free connection, looks nice and sounds better than most other's installations, regardless of what speaker wire is used. If the job is a retro fit that does not entail running this stuff through walls (in other words draped behind the rack on the floor) I make up the wires at my shop and completely dress out each entire speaker run in mesh sleeving (I buy it in 250' rolls). Often on those types of jobs, I rarely use this approach with surround speaker wires. But I do find myself prewiring all speaker runs with this 8-Cat5 in my higher end theatre rooms (never for whole house music). But keep in mind, I market myself as a very high end "themed" theatre room solution provider and always design the room with the thought that it will wear both hats extremely well (multi channel as well as 2 channel). I pay very close attention to the "Golden Triangle" (in relation to the one "money" seat) and am shocked at how so many supposed high-end rooms ignore this fundamental rule. (Fodder for another thread).

I'm impressed that they manage to make 5 + 5 = 8.

typo - duh should have been 4+4 duh