We are on a takeover Control4 job. They have 3 Dayton 6 zones amps feeding the house audio system. The amps are plugging into a Panamax 11 outlet surge protector. One of the Dayton amps turns "red" after about 5-10 minutes and shuts down. The other do not. We were able to RMA the unit and installed a new one. The same thing is happening! We even tried plugging the amp direct to the wall and it makes no difference. I know it's possible both amps could be bad, but it's unlikely. What would make an amp shut down like that? The only connections are incoming feeds from the Triad matrix, and the speaker wires going to the 6 zones. We are going back Monday to troubleshoot, but I wanted to see if anyone has an idea to point us in the right direction.

Thanks!

I would try plugging all of the speakers from one of the other amps into the suspect amp to see if the condition continues. Or plug all of the speakers from the suspect amp into One of the functioning amps. If the problem repeats itself you may have a short in the speaker wires?

You could systematically disconnect speaker runs on the problem amp or probe each of the speaker connections with an Ohmmeter. A direct short is a quick, easy find. Also check the speaker wires for a short to building ground.

Does the amp turn "red" if it is simply idling? Is the shutdown time related to volume?

Since this is a takeover, it is possible that one of the speaker runs is operating into an impossible to support load. An Ohmmeter may or may not pick up this sort of fault.

If there are any in-wall speaker Volume controls, one or more could be wired backwards.

Thanks.

The amp turns red even when idling, and no sources are playing. It is not related to volume.

I did not see any volume controls, but who knows if they covered anything up in the walls.

It seems like the best test are the ones you guys mentioned here, which is what we plan to do on Monday.

If there is anything else we can try, we are open to suggestions.

Thanks.

What model of amplifier? Is it the MA-1240 or 1260? If so, read the manual and look at the back- these have a switch at the lower left corner for On, Auto and Trigger- the last can use 3-30 DC Volt trigger input and will send a 12VDC trigger output, even if the amplifier is set to turn on automatically. If the music stops, the amp turns off. That's covered in the manual.

Either use the 12V trigger or some other means to turn the amps on.

Check the input level of the source- if the amp is set to turn on automatically, it may be going to sleep because the incoming level is insufficient to keep it on.

Exactly. At this point you've probably eliminated power as your problem.

And since you have other amps of the same model, the next step would be to swap amps from this position to another. If the problem moves with the amp, there's an amp problem. If the problem remains with the wiring, you have a wiring problem.

In addition to what's been mentioned, measure for voltage, then resistance, from power amp output ground to power ground, and measure from power amp output hot to power ground. A speaker ground wire accidentally shorting to a power ground out where there's voltage on the power ground could wreak such havoc.

Find nothing? Look at the audio output with a scope. I list this last because it's least likely to be helpful and few of us use scopes these days.

The OP wrote "The amp turns red even when idling, and no sources are playing."- that tells me it's set to Auto.

I posted info about Dayton multi-room amps and how the Auto On operates- since Dayton doesn't offer other multi-zone models with this capability, it would be useful to look at the amps in question rather than speculating about speaker wires connecting to power ground and other odd phenomena.

I'll make it easy for you (again). Look at the photo of the back and zoom in to the lower left corner-

[Link: parts-express.com]

Let me rewrite this post.

Why on earth would you not check for a short to ground on speaker wires, instead going for something, what, a little more ordinary?

If you're going to swap amp positions, you have to disconnect the speaker wires. At that moment you are set up to check for a short to ground. And you're going to consciously refuse to check that situation?

For some reason you'd bypass that entirely valid test, a test that would rarely show a problem... because that problem is extremely rare? How would you feel about a doctor who doesn't run a test, even though the symptoms match a few conditions, those conditions are rare? Especially if he has to do something that sets up the conditions for an additional simple test?

I'd want to gather all the information I could along the way.

tca

If you have access to an oscilloscope, check the speaker outputs and see if the amp is undergoing high frequency oscillation while connected to the system. It does not take much amplitude at these frequencies to cause the amp to malfunction.

I didn't mention that because it was simple but exotic. In fact, I mentioned a scope because oscillation was the first thing that came to mind.

While we're at it, is the load on that amp different in some way from the loads on the other amps? That takes nothing but thinking.

You'll have to be careful, though, because if you think too clearly you might reveal to yourself that it's worthwhile to measure speaker wires to ground, which has already been recommended against. But the load on that amp WILL be different from the loads on the other amps if there's a short to power ground on some speaker wire, even on the negative lead.

When the red light strikes, a quick check of heat sink temperature would be prudent.

Since this is a takeover, I do agree that referencing the speaker wires to ground is a good idea- if I run cables and I know there's no way for them to contact a ground, I don't check this unless I know that someone has been working near my cables.

However, the amp is going to sleep, not going into protection or blowing the fuse, which is directly below the power cord, assuming this is one of the models I mentioned earlier.

I didn't recommend against anything- read the words, stop implying so much.

The manual includes this in the manual-

"2. Zone Status Indicators
Each pair of channels or zones has a bi-color LED to
indicate its operational status. These indicators provide quick
and easy troubleshooting of the system. If the circuitry determines that a channel must be shut down due to excessive
heat or low impedance (a short), only the channels that are
affected will be turned off causing the zone LED to turn red.
The remaining zones will continue to operate and maintain a
blue LED status. Once the condition has been corrected for
the zone in question, the status LED will return to blue.
Note: When the power LED is red and the zone status LEDS
are not lit (off), this indicates the unit is in standby mode."

That begs the question, "Which LED(s) turn red- the ones for each channel, or just the one near the power switch?

Oh, I"m not familiar with this unit. Depending on the red light status, my suggestions might be barking at the wrong end of the dog.